Hunnic Bow ( fulldraw page 3 )

[artcher1]

The bows I have  sinew backed with  hide glue have to be tillered periodictally and after sitting in the sun for awhile,(90 dgs, 65% hum.)  just seen to zip an arrow quicker.

 I found the same thing to be true also Eddie. But a little more flexibility when it gets down to freezing during hunting season is nice .

Think I'm going back to using the TB2 for sinewing instead of using the TB3 anymore. Had better results myself using the water resistant glue instead of the water proof glue. What's the old saying, you have to give up something to get something, well, I think that happened with this type of glue........Art

[toomanyknots]

"Think I'm going back to using the TB2 for sinewing instead of using the TB3 anymore. Had better results myself using the water resistant glue instead of the water proof glue."

Supposedly thats what ed scott uses.

"I've only sinew backed Osage and Mulberry. One short, Plains style bow I backed with three layers of sinew with TB3. I could pull this 48" bow 28" but the cast was real poor. I really think that the sinew, with the stretchy TB3, kinda, overpowered the wood, and made it respond slower. "

I kinda know whatcha mean. Titebond seems to be stretchy but not elastic, like you can stretch it but it won't stretch back, or seems this way to me from workin with it...

[mullet]

Art, I think you are right about the TB2 and 3. I like using TB3 when applying sinew wraps on arrows because of the waterproof qualities, but I liked the results from using TB2 working with bows better. It's almost like a sealer with TB2 and sealing a bow with a Garden hose with TB3. It also dries quicker when applying sinew.

[toomanyknots]

So titebond 2 drys quicker than titebond 3? Cause this sinew is drying wayyy slower than when using normal hide (sinew) glue. I got one spot that just won't stop being squishy and soft, been like 4 or 5 days now sitting in the van in the hot sun. And at night or anytime it's not in the hot sun, in a room with constant fans on it. If I treated one layer of sinew that I glued down with hide glue like this it would of been rock hard see though and tillerable in two days. It does seem like the glue is keeping the sinew under it from drying. What doesn't help is I smoothed on a real nice coat of tb3 after laying down the sinew, next time if I use titebond I won't do this.

[artcher1]

Eddie, the best method I've found to prevent tiller change, is to first get the bow shooting, making sure tiller stays put, then apply even amounts of sinew to each limb. You can either weigh the sinew out using a grain scale, or place a balance mark center of the bow, and then file/scrape/sand (if necessary) the sinew to maintain balance. 

Toomanyknots, I agree, don't apply any more glue once the sinewing job is complete. I don't dip my sinew bundles in glue, but rather lay them in a shallow pan with it's bottom barely covered with glue. This way only the bottom of the sinew bundle is saturated with glue. Once my back has dried, then filed/scraped/sanded will I add another coating of the TB3 glue. Really speeds up drying............. Art

[toomanyknots]

Ok, thanks art and mullet.  Btw, one thing that happens to me always is when pulling sinew bundles out of the soaking pan I get all the sinew mixed up and tied in sinew knots and stuff. So I end up having to bundle each sinew bundle up again or come out with uneven bundles or whatnot. It's not that bad but it is dependably aggravating. lol What would you guys think of, instead of soaking the sinew in water altogether, just dipping each bundle in real hot water for a couple seconds or so, then applying glue individually? Thanks for all the tips yall also!

[Lee Slikkers]

There are some serious tips and assistance happening here...this place is such a wealth of knowledge.  Dang, too bad we can't bottle it up and sell it or at least "rent" to the folks on here.  Sure would be great to have a "tutor" in the basement as I went though challenging stuff like this...

[artcher1]

Sinew and hot water is going to cause you problems. The sinew will shrivel up on you and become useless.

To keep the bundles together, I first comb them out before putting into the glue pan. Then using a small stirring stick I raise up one end of the bundle up so I can grap it to keep it together. Hope that helps...........Art

[mullet]

When I'm going from sinew in the warm water to laying it on the bow, I won't leave the sinew there long, just enough to get it flexible. I usually have a palmfull of TB I slide it through while also squeezing out excess water. When I get too much on my hands I'll wash them off in the bowl with the sinew.

There is another way of doing this that I learned from James Parker. But, I was swore it would be a secret. You will have to get that from him.

Lee, it's free. here.

[Lee Slikkers]

When can I book a flight to visit you Mullet?  Preferrably during Gator, pig and Puma ( ) season 

[rps3]

I saw someone else doing this, place the bundles of sinew in a clothspin while they soak in water. Helps keep them from turning into knots.

[fusizoli]

Another way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYs2W2gurs&feature=related

[toomanyknots]

Awesome videos fuzi, I had thought I had seen all the youtube korean bow making videos on youtube. That guy had to of been using backstrap, it was longer than hell, I thought it was flax fiber at first! Welp, now my problem is that I got some limb twist. There is absolutely positively no way to fix it by removing wood, these limbs are extremely thin. After tillering they are less than 1/4" for alot of the limb. I have almost no idea how, but, it never fails come hell or high water that the siyahs don't line up. (This time they don't because of the limb twist.) One limb seems to be ok, (crosses fingers) but the other one is making the siyah move to the right so it twists real bad and is unbraceable. Although I have seemed to have tillering complete somehow, and with an unbraceable bow at that.  It's very light poundage wise. Gonna be 30 maybe 40 pounds if I'm lucky. That is if I can get the siyahs straight. Ill post some pics in a bit. I don't know is alignment is the whole issue, as maybe sinew being too heavy/strong on one side of the limb and weak on the other side of the limb could cause twist? I really don't know. Also, the siyahs and towards the handle were bandaged on using the linen thread soaked in tb3 method I use all the time. But this time it I did a crappy job, due to the limb being wider I didn't get as tight of a hold on the siyahs, so they were easily twisted too. Next time I really need to do that better. Heres how I bandage siyahs with glue soaked linen, I do two wraps in both directions that overlap each other as this is the only real way to make sure it is snug and tight:

First wrap



Second wrap



After that I put about 2 or 3 more coats of titebond 3 on. I just did a crappy job this time from the limb being about 1" wide or so at the tips and the base of the siyah (that is only butt jointed on with some titebond 3) is only 1/2" so you can see why it might not be such a good tite wrap. It kept the siyahs on fine, especially due to it being such a light draw weight bow (in the making), but I could tell the siyah was twisting and coming lose inside the wrap which was doing a piss poor job. Long story short, I'm an idiot,  ... SOOO, in order to fix this limb twist/siyah twist problem, I cut the wrapping on the siyah that was twisting to the right with a razor blade and worked the base to where the siyah leaned to the left. Glued it back on with super glue this time instead of tb3. Don't know whats gonna happen, but this is what I did... I've had to do crap like this almost everytime I try something with siyahs, it gets so old. Is there something wrong with my eyes or somethin? And I was so excited about this making these types of bows because I thought it would be impossible for the siyahs to be misaligned because of the string not touching the siyah, I thought that the pressure of the braced string would just pull the siyahs straight like on a normal selfbow where the tips aren't super straight??? ...  Welp, I guess one of the notes I have to put down after my first little trial run is gonna be "A little less angled reflex on the siyahs to reduce the chance of limb twist like this guy"

"The only difference between their reconstructions was the form of the unstrung bow. Fabian built much less reflexed bows, thereby reducing the risk of limb twist, but also reducing the efficiency of the bow." (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BM-sSRjrHvsJ:www.atarn.org/magyar/magyar_2/bow.htm+magyar+limb+twist&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com)



 

[toomanyknots]

Well I don't have alot of experience with limb twist on very wide thin thickness limbs, but I know I get it more often than not with thin wide limbs. Especially with limbs that are wide at the tips. I think this my be the main problem. I guess the limb twist could of been caused by the sinew being stronger on one side of the limb than the other as well? As I believe the alignment probably was not the problem. I can't say for sure though. Anybody have experience with this? Like I said earlier, I took the siyah off and put it back on leaning to the left to counter act the limb twisting to the right, which kind of is working for now, it still bends a bit, but seems for the most part stable. Probably due to the light draw weight of the bow. I would guess this bow to be about 30# at 32" Or maybe even 20#. It's very light weight. It shoots an arrow alright for the weight I guess. Anyway, has anyone ever fixed limb twist by adding sinew to the weaker side of the limb? I know this would drive me crazy to keep adding sinew here, or sinew there, and then having this side heavier so I would have to add some over here now, and some more over there now, exc exc exc... I have heard that sanding the sinew to tiller the bow can work as well. Would an option for me of been to sand the sinew on the stronger side of the limb to fix the twist? Also, although the limb on the more twisty limb is kind of working for now, or at least not twisting to the point of being unshootable, the other limb now wants to twist a bit and is either gonna be reattached or something as the limb just doesn't wanna be fixed by sanding the weaker side of the limb. So I might just take the freaking siyahs off to save em for a different bow and say screw it. I don't know. It's about done in my book. I've about had it with this thing, too much work for some twisty annoying crap, might as well just start a new one with less reflex less wide limbs and (I suspect that the reason for the limbs twisting so much may be from the 1" wide tips, everytime I make a bow with wide tips it twists, but I don't know for sure, I just think it is. Either way next time the the limbs will be pyramid tapered to 1/2" or less instead. Heres some pics:



Like a 7" brace here. I've had to brace to like 20" dead serious (I don't even know why, just kinda happened, lol), so 1" or set aint too bad IMO. I thought it was gonna be too short of a bow, but if everything would of worked with this bow then it would of easily been a 32" draw bow. I think that I need help figuring out how to reduce the chance of limb twist as well as fix it when it happens.





The sinew backing (with titebond 3)



Bulbous handle...





You can see the stupied twist here...



\

You can see how I made the siyah lean to the left in this picture to counter act the limb twist, it has been sort of working, but if it was a heavier bow it would of probably ripped off by now... 



Fulldraw





Heres a link to a video I took this morning shooting it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMm9KSXpkbs

[blackhawk]

Other than the twist(I have no advice there) and the lower draw weight,id say it looks pretty cool from the side profile and full draw.     what's up with that string by the way. And looks like you just need a lil different design and maybe different wood choice next time and you might be able to get it right and much more to your liking. All in all I don't think its a bad job. More like a learning experience to make it better the next time