Uncut with Ed Scott...interesting point on glue for sinew backing

[Kegan]

Marc- My mistake. Thanks for clearing that up

[blackhawk]

One wood have to use exact same density wood from the same tree. I think you wood want to check the SG of each stave and try to make them to exact dimensions and weight. And one wood have to measure and weigh the sinew to make sure both bows get the exact same amount. Tough to do and I think you wood have to make more than just two to come to any conclusions. Maybe two from 3 or more species of wood that matches sinew well..I.e.Osage,yew,juniper. But that will be tough to find exact copies of staves in those woods. And there's prob more measures to take....can anyone think of anymore?


Obviously TB3 works but what glue has the better performance?  And what about inducing reflex in a stave with heat prior to sinewing? Because you can make a sinewed bow with TB3 the same profile as one induced by the use of hide glue.

Too many questions to answer and this is making my brain hurt over thinking this.

[Badger]

   I go along with Justin Scott on this one. The only difference I have seen is drying time. Tb4 greatly increases the drying time of the sinew. If I were going to use tightbond I would use tb2 as it is not water proof. That being said I have used both tb4, tb3 and hide glue. I can't tell the difference except in curring time. TB4 will take forever to cure down deep once the outside layer has hardened. If I use tb 2  now I put on very thin layers and allow several days between layers. I recently sinewed a plum bow about 6 months ago with tb4 seems like it is still gaining reflex.

[mullet]

I personally like TB2 because of the drying time. Then I'll smear a layer of TB3 over it once it dries. Steve, I've never seen TB4, where do you get it?
 If you use TB for sinew, you have to induce any reflex you want before hand. Because of the glue, it will not shrink and contract. The TB glues encapsulate the sinew, thus sealing it, from the environment and not allowing shrinkage.

 For simplicity when sinewing, I'll take the TB glues. This argument is kinda like the old ones like you couldn't make a bow from Kiln dried lumber, carving on the back of a bow and,,, whatever new thing someone has the cajones to try.

[osage outlaw]

If you really wanted to get accurate test results, you could make a bow and sinew back it with hide glue.  Test it, then soak the sinew off and dry it.  Then re-apply the same sinew with TB and test it again.  That seems like a lot of work, but it would be about the most accurate way as far as I can see.

[PatM]

Todd was adamant that not scoring the back of a bow was tempting fate because it violated thousands of years of tradition and  yet we can freely encapsulate animal material in PVA without thinking teice about it. To heck with the elders when it comes to that.

[Traxx]

Pat,
Go back n read that Debate again.I didnt defend the practice because it was an old tradition,but that it became a tradition for a reason.If the ancestors woulda Had TB glues,I betcha they woulda used it and it may have become a tradition as well.

[Traxx]

Fusizoli,

Traxx and 2traxx,are the same guy

[aero86]

sooo.. people that have used tb for sinew backing, do you water it down?  whats your process?  just lay it on wet and let dry over night?

[fusizoli]

Fusizoli,

Traxx and 2traxx,are the same guy

  ok! Hope I had  quote U  right !


The sinew glued with hide glue needs the same or more time. The turkish flight bows had 2 years or more drying time! One year is averidge on other hornbows, but who wait that time nowdays. Just a few bowyer

As I know TB II is in D3 category so it is near water resistant, D4 like TB III is 100% so TB II with a surface protection scould be water resistant.
I like new things if it better than old. For me in this case the natural glue wins.

[Badger]

   Eddie, the tb4 will eventually dry out the sinew but it takes forever. I mentioned in th epost I built the plum bow 6 months ago. After checking it was closer to two years ago. It looks like it finally may have dried out sinew. Bow gained a lot of weight in the two years. Looking at the color of the sinew I may have used tb3 instead of 4 because it it more yellow than I remembered. The three will eventually dry out.

[Kegan]

sooo.. people that have used tb for sinew backing, do you water it down?  whats your process?  just lay it on wet and let dry over night?

I'm interested in this too. I have two sister staves of the same design. It wouldn't be scientific but I'd like to give a side by side comarison a try. Already have the first stave sinew backed with Knox curing.

[fusizoli]

I don't wan a be the guy who allways say the right thing, but I wouldn't use gelatine for any glue up on a bow. The best is fish bladder glue and the second strongest is the hide glue.
It is too fine for this, here nobody use that on horn bows. I ve heard just failures about gelatine.

Don't take this as a citicism please

[Kegan]

I don't wan a be the guy who allways say the right thing, but I wouldn't use gelatine for any glue up on a bow. The best is fish bladder glue and the second strongest is the hide glue.
It is too fine for this, here nobody use that on horn bows. I ve heard just failures about gelatine.

Don't take this as a citicism please

Never made a horn bow, but Knox seems to work great for sinew backed wooden bows. I've yet to have a failure (even with relaly heavy bows, 85#+), and it seems there are plenty of other folks using it too

[fusizoli]

Knox is a gelatine for foods isn't it? Hope I know well.

Gelatine is hide glue just made for food on a longer finer process. I ve used  gelatine several times on other things but a normal hide glue which schould by like hide glue and not gelatine, gives stronger bond. Yes on wooden bows the sinew takes much less stress than on a hornbow. U are the master I'm just a beginner after few years in this, but reading the forums every day and if I remember well, about the 80% of sinew work which failed made by gelatine and not with hide or bladder glue.