Tip flippin?? Ken, hoping you'll chime in!

[k-hat]

K, so I've seen the multitude of incredible bows Ken has been putting out, and really wanna try flippin tips on a bow this summer (soon as i finish all the ones i have in the works!!!).  Did some searches but came up kinda dry.  Is there some good, easy-to-follow instruction out there I'm missing?  Would i do the same as reflexing, with just a more extreme bend?  Should the tips bend at all once flipped?  Ken, you up to doing a "flip-a-long"     for all us newbies?  any info is greatly appreciated!!

[Elktracker]

Basically its just a matter of building a caul and clamping the tip and heating the section you want to bent until it drops into place you can use dry heat or steam but usually dry is for dry wood and steam is for green or wet wood. As far as the tips working or not thats up to you but generally I dont let about the last 6" or so do any real bending but sure you could let them bent a small amount but not much at all. Hope that helps im sure some more experiances vets will chime in soon Nice to have you here, look forward to seeing some of your projects.

Josh

[Weylin]

I weigh in here with caution as I am not an experienced bowyer. I have flipped the tips on the two flatbows that I have made. On the first bow, a hickory flatbow, I clamped my bow down to a caul and used a heatgun, it worked very well. On my last bow that I made I was working with John Strunk. We were making a yew flat bow and we decided to flip the tips to counter some natural deflex in the stave. He used steam on a dry stave and clamped it to a caul for a while. then we dryed it with a small space heater for a while while it was still clamped to the caul. only once it was cool did we unclamp it. We did this a couple of times during the process to correct some deviations in the limbs. I just thought I'd throw this out there for discussion as an example of steam being used on a dry stave to flip the tips during the tillering process.

[k-hat]

Thanks for the info guys.  Josh, that's pretty much exactly how i'm doing my reflexing now(just finished reflexing a limb a few minutes ago in fact!), so sounds like i just need to make a new caul for the flipping.  Just wanted to be sure there weren't any special techniques or cautions before i give it a go.  It'll probly be mid-june before i get to try it out, hopefully sooner.  I've got three hickory bows i'm finishing for other people, and a redoak bow for my son, and the next will be for me with flipped tips, hopefully to be used for next deer season     Soon as i get some of these done i'll post 'em.  Thanks again for the input!

[crooketarrow]

   Build a caul put it in a vice where when you clamp the tip you bow sticks up in the air. Heat the area you wish to been and let the weight of the bow do the beening. Tihs will happen when enough heat has been added.  I don't like to rerheat and take some of the been out. This is not good with white woods. So be carefull its easy to add to much been. Like I said even thought you can reheat and rebeen I don't like to I add a stopper so the tip beens to where I want it. So I only heat the tip once. This is hard to do starting out so been a little and check it out. A little is better than to much.

[Elktracker]

Stixman sounds like you got it and look forward to your bows

weylin im not sure why John uses steam on dry wood? maybe just prefference but im sure there was some good reason. I have seen him use the small space heater to do small string alignment movements but I might have to ask him if there was a specific reason he used steam on dry  wood. I could see if there was a large bend to be made but just flipping the tips makes me think it was just a prefference thing. Another reason he may have used steam was because he didnt want to have to wait for the wood to rehidrate wich can take a couple days even in Tillamooks soggy wet climate, so that would be my guess as to why he used steam.

I agree with crooketarrow

[half eye]

Stix,
      I dont differentiate on any of my bow woods, if they get bent I use steam. Have no good reason other than that's how I done it since the 60's and it "bothers" me to scrotch bow wood, no good reason for that neither.  Just one old man's two-bit opinion.
rich

[Blacktail]

i have used steam on all my bending...never had any trouble espcally on tips..i understand about dry heat on dry wood...but,if itsnt broke why fix it...maybe some day i will try dry heat till them its all steam ahead for me..flipping tips is no big thing...i use the method of 1/2'' thick steam for 1/2hr if its 1'' thick steam for 1hr...john

[ken75]

stix there re many on here that have much expirence with dry heat . so far ive used steam to flip my tips . i do most by hand so i can feel the wood . and i like to keep mine rigid or just barely bending

[k-hat]

Thanks for the great input guys.  I don't really have a bias toward steam or dry heat . . . yet . . . but so far i've had good success with my heat gun, and steaming just isn't practical for me right now.  I really haven't been tempering when i heat, mainly keeping it far enough away and moving around enough the heat gets through and warm enough to take the shape i want.  I do have a padauk bow in the works that's on hold right now, and i steamed it to take out some propeller twist, with good results.  It was my understanding dry heat would NOT be good for that wood.  Thanks for your input too, Ken, hope you didn't mind me callin you out!  

Alright, looks like i have then what i need and just need to go for it.  Again, it'll be june or july-ish before this happens, but i'll post when i have something in the works.

Still would like to see that "flip-a-long", especially if it's done by hand.  Guess my caul is my bending security blanket!

[Lee Slikkers]

Hey Stix, I hope it works well for you BUT just when I thought I had a handle on the bending thing (dry = dry heat / green = steam) all these experts toss a spanner in the works for me 

I guess as long as a guy keep the heat gun away from green wood then is seems either method will work on dry wood.  Very interesting thread though and it was nice to hear what a lot of the guys who are turning out short & bend through the handle are using...I would have lost money had I ventured a wager.

[Josh]

I used steam to flip the tips on this red oak board bow.  It worked out fine and the bow is still shooting.  Matter of fact I shot a 3D course with it a couple of weekends ago and it held up fine.  I use steam for more radical bends and dry heat for string alignment, propellar twist, and shallow bends.  I really never heat green wood, only seasoned wood so I really can't weigh in on how to bend it.  Good luck whichever way you choose.

 http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,24411.15.html

[k-hat]

thanks Josh, that's a beaut!  Could you tell me about your thickness taper on that one?  Looks like a progressive taper from the handle then gets thicker again on the tips?  Were the sides parallel for some of the length, it kinda looks that way, but hard to tell at the angle.  The big dramatic recurves scare me, but i think this is one i could tackle, so i'd love to see some specs i could work with!!  Did you put string grooves along the tips for the string to lay in?  I love red oak, especially the ones that actually have some color to them, and the grain is usually very eyecatching (as with yours)!

[Josh]

I think I started with them being around 5/8" at the fades tapering to 1/2 inch thick at tips when I steamed the limbs, tillering  of course changes those dimensions a bit but it will still leave you enough wood to get final tiller shape on a 66" NtN 1 7/8" wide bow.  I glued them together with a V splice in the handle and then added the block riser to it.  Make sure to leave the gluing surface flat and full thickness (3/4") when you thin the limbs. I always leave the handle area thicker you have less chance of the handle popping off that way.  After I steamed bent the tips and glued the handle together I tillered it like a normal bow.  Good luck on yours!