No set tillering

[Grunt]

Anybody got a link to the no set tillering formula?

[toomanyknots]

Wouldn't no set tillering just be starting with excellently seasoned wood coupled with very careful slow tillering while never over going the desired weight? What is this no set formula you speak of? Sounds like something I would like to know myself,

[NTD]

It's something Badger had talked about, and something I'd like to try.  I think the most exhaustive discussion about it was in a thread about the mass formula.  I'll look for the link for you.

[NTD]

Here ya go.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=17294.0

[Grunt]

thanks a bunch NTD.

[NTD]

No Problem Grunt.  I'd love to hear a report of how it worked out for you.

[johnston]

Came here to research set prevention and found this thread. Timing is everything.

Got a newbie question...Badger said to use a benchmark on the tillering stick to detect set. If you pull to 16" and have a little set when you go slack, he said to take a little wood off the belly to relieve the tension.
My question is where on the belly? And does this mean I can tiller out most of the set as I go?

Working on a simple D board bow, maple 62" shooting for 47lb. Tiller took me forever cause its my first time Finally got it where I wanted and checked weight which was @50 lbs at 22" and I am shooting for 25". Thought I was close.

Brought it down and had two inches of set. Hour later still there. Just checked and it is there for good. Should I have trimmed a bit of belly at the time? Can I still tiller it out? Got enough on the sides to make my weight but wont taking off the belly for set cause my pull to go down too?

Bow was pulled to draw weight about 10 times during tillering with no problem.

Very few know as much as Steve but all of you know more than me. What should I do? Thanks.

Lane

[NTD]

In my opinion this is a technique that should be applied AFTER one has some basics down. 

Full draw profile, appropriate to the front shape of your bow is the first thing you need to know how to do for multiple reasons including minimizing set. 

Set happens, but there are things that can be done to minimize it.  Dry wood, proper tiller shape, and apparently this technique.  Without seeing your bow and how it was designed and tillered, trying to tell you how to reduce set in your specific bow would be like shooting arrows in the dark.  To be clear once there is set in your bow you really can't take it out(except heat treating or glueing a backing into reflex, which is actually covering up the problem not fixing it, but that's another conversation), 2" isn't horrible, a little much for that short of a draw but not bad, especially for an early bow.  But if you post your bow, maybe in it's own thread we could maybe help you avoid too much set in your next bow.

[gstoneberg]

Lane,

My first bow was a maple board bow and I had a very similar experience. 

First, 62" is pretty short for a first bow.  It can certainly be done, but it requires excellent tillering to pull off without set.  I always start people off making bows in the 68" range.  There's much more margin for error that way.

Second, I think you have the wrong goal for your first bow.  Your goal ought to be to make a bow that shoots arrows.  Many many targets have been punched and deer have been killed using bows with 2" of set.  Tillering is as much art as it is science, at least for me it is.  In fact, using a formula to tiller removes the fun of bow building for me.  The truth is that building a bow with some set is not a failure.  Each bow teaches you something, even the ones that break.  It takes several bows (when you're working on your own) to get an eye for tillering.  You can shorten that interval  by getting hands-on help from an experienced bowyer, or taking a class from one.

My advice is to finish this bow out best you can and shoot the heck out of it.  Start a new bow as soon as you can.  Set up a camera so you can take pictures of your bow on the tillering tree.  Leave the bow stressed only long enough to get a picture.  Make your tiller adjustment based on what you see in the pictures.  Never exceed your intended draw weight.  If you have questions you can post a picture and get help.  As Nate said, build a few bows, and then a lot of what you have read will make more sense.

Good luck,
George

[toomanyknots]

"http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=17294.0"

This is brilliant! Not only could this be useful for good woods, but even more helpful on very set prone woods. Steve is a mad scientist (that just happens to make bows), 

[johnston]

Thanks Nate, you are correct, of course.

George, I was gonna pm you today but this thread was so interesting that I went off without serious thought. I am not disappointed by the way and the bow will be finished and shot.

Sorry if I got off thread.

Lane

[crooketarrow]

   I'm with GEORGE you might be able to use a formula on board bows or glass but not so much with staves. WOOD IS WOOD the only way to no set tillering stave bows is through exsperence.
1 seasoned staves
2 never over stress you limb (never go over your target weight) ( never use a tillering tree without a scale)
3 keep  moisture from invading your bow when you start tillering
 These are the main reasons for string follow.
 You can drive yourself crazzy with all the TEX stuff. If your that tpye of a person start with glass bows where you have some controll. Building a shootable bow not that hard. Build a few bows shoot them and ENJOY doing it. All the TEX stuff will keep you awake nights if you let it. Don't try to take the primitive out of primitive bows.

[Kegan]

Hold up, crooketarrow, N.S.T. isn't technical at all. It's just a different approach to watching for stiff spots in a bow when you're tillering. I use it on stave bows all the time, and so far most of my bows are coming out with 1" of set or less. I don't weigh my bows for the Mass principal either, just leave them wide and go from there.

The basic goal of N.S.T. is to let the scale tell you when the limbs are being overstressed. Rather than trusting your eyes, when the bow starts to lose weight at your benchmark that means there's either a stiff spot or the limbs aren't wide/long enough to tolerate the design. So you scrape the thick spots or stiff limbs down before it shows up as visible set.

Johnston- your bow took set because it was too short or narrow for the weight, or too wet. Nothing you can do now except back it or make another one . No set tillering is best done from the the moment the bow is braced, but doesn't garuntee you'll get your bow weight if the bow isn't designed to handle the weight.

[johnston]

Folks I appreciate the wisdom and like I said all of you know more than me.

crookedarrow you are right about the technology stuff. To me a bow works when it works and the magic can't always be explained.

Kegan, I thank you for breaking it down a little bit for me. I have a lot to learn but hey, it would not be this much fun if it were easy. And to get as much out of it as possible I always intended to back this bow and try a few other things that you guys do. I have other wood to destroy after this one might as well learn to do it properly.

George I told you I was gonna build one and then ask you a bunch of questions. Aside from this aside,I still will.

Nate , it is harder for me to post pics here than to build a bow but that too I will eventually get.

Lane

[Kegan]

No problem, happy to help. That's just how I look at it and it works pretty well for me. I was never very good at picking out what was a problem in the tiller or if I was just over-obsessing. My eyes aren't the most reliable tiller-checkers some times