Author Topic: Molle's and holmy's?  (Read 7837 times)

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Offline CraigMBeckett

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 11:11:34 pm »
Holten101,

Thank you for the explanation of the way Paul Comstock made his "error" concerning the "backward bows". Given that most of the recent information regarding the bows he was talking about say they are conventional and not backward, I wondered how this could have occurred if he had actually held them in his hands.

Craig.

Offline Little John

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2011, 12:18:22 am »
Holten, now I am really confused. I am working on what I thought would be a hybrid between a holmie and a molie. Actually it is going to be a double edge ringed bow worked from a small diameter salt cedar stave with a raisedhandle on the back but with the narrow lever tips of the molie. This stave has two inches of reflex and I am going to heat treat the belly and sinue the working part of the back and was going to call it Homly Mollie. Don't know what to call it now. Well any way a bow is a bow.   Kenneth
May all of your moments afield with bow in hand please and satisfy you.            G. Fred Asbell

Offline ken75

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 12:59:34 am »
John just call it a one off custom . sounds cooler

Offline Acutus

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2011, 01:21:32 am »
Found this pic of the Holmegaard



At this location.

http://wiki.lafidelite-constantia.be/mediawiki/index.php/De_Holmegaard_boog

Don't know how many had seen it.

Offline Stiks-N-Strings

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 01:46:42 am »
This has turned out to be a truly interesting and informative post.  I got a molle sinewed and curing and got to thinking Is it really a molle or a holmgard.

 It's definitely a molle. From what has been posted and shared here it is quite obvious which is which and I am greatful for the education on the subject. Really makes me want to learn more about the ancient bows and their origins and uses. Holten thanks for all the info. Acutus that pic makes me want hold that bow  ;D

 Got to love it! Stiks
learned a great deal many things during my absence the last few years,
True friends are rare and priceless.
You always think it won’t happen to you, well it can it will. Such is life, it ain't fair and shows no indifference. Enjoy it anyway

Offline Holten101

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2011, 06:29:53 am »
Hi Little John
Sounds like an interesting project...make sure to keep us up to date (with pics and all):-)....eksperiments like that will allways be rewarding even if you cant label the bow (labels in this case are inherently doubious anyways;-).

As a side note I can tell that early interpretations of the Holmegård artefact included the idea that the bow could have been sinewed (this could, according to the author, explain the shoulder(s)). Having seen the artefact several times (one is enough tho;-) and made numerous flat bows of wych elm  (including Holmegård-type and Møllegabet-type bows) I can say that it is unlikly (had I been more bombastic I would say there is "NO way";-)) that they were sinewed.

I hope to get a first hand view of the Møllegabet artefact and other...not so well documented bows this summer (if time permits). I will ofc take pictures and post my findings/view in here:-)   

Cheers

Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2011, 09:53:56 am »
Holten, just to get things straightened out, I've got a question. What woods are the three bows made of? The one Møllegabet , the complete Holmegard, and the incomplete Holmegard?

Furthermore, there is very little data available on the incomplete Holmegard. Do you happen to have a picture/drawing of that incomplete artefact? I'm wondering if the profile of that bow is any different from the profile of the complete Holmegard.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Little John

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 10:18:43 am »
Just thinking, if the original holmi bows  follow a ring on the back then what really makes them different from more modern bows  other than being old.       Kenneth
May all of your moments afield with bow in hand please and satisfy you.            G. Fred Asbell

Offline Holten101

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2011, 10:54:08 am »
Holten, just to get things straightened out, I've got a question. What woods are the three bows made of? The one Møllegabet , the complete Holmegard, and the incomplete Holmegard?

Furthermore, there is very little data available on the incomplete Holmegard. Do you happen to have a picture/drawing of that incomplete artefact? I'm wondering if the profile of that bow is any different from the profile of the complete Holmegard.

Funny that info so old is so hard to obtain in this day and age:-(. A paper from 1945 descibes two bows, but The National Museum reports fragments of 4 bows (iirc). The only material on the second, larger bow fragment, I could find is this drawing:



The shoulder and thickening of the outer limb is clearly visible. The profile is closer to, but not enought (imo....and this can be discussed) to make it none working. The bow was longer (160-170 cm), wider and more powerfull than the more well known complete bow.

Concerning the wood type I have to trust the original sources which reports that both the Møllegabet fragment and the Holmegård bows were Elm (most likely Wych Elm).

The Møllegabet fragment (belly view):


@Little John
I dont entirely agree on that point. The design is close to optimal for this wood type (imo) which indicates advanced knowledge of distribution of forces. Also the Holmegård bow is close to what can be considdered a "missing link" (im not convinced such a thing exists in bow development) between a (assumed) "primitive"  pyramid bow...and the more derived lever-type bow represented by the later Møllegabet fragment.

As a side note: It is important that people look at the bows and make up their own mind....these posts are coloured by my pov!

Some links that might be of interest:
http://wiki.lafidelite-constantia.be/mediawiki/index.php/De_Holmegaard_boog
http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstillingen/jaegerstenalderen/jaegerstenalderens_buer_og_pile/verdens_aeldste_buer/language/u/
http://www.buewesth.dk/stenalderindex.html

Have fun and please chip in with opinions:-)



Offline Little John

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 01:36:02 am »
I don't know enough to really have any oppinions as to the history of these bows, but do know that a modified Mollllle is my favorite bow and don't really see any need to make other styles. I used to think they were Holmies, just from reading the bowyer bibles.                Kenneth
May all of your moments afield with bow in hand please and satisfy you.            G. Fred Asbell

Offline Holten101

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 02:29:48 am »
I agree Little John
My Holmegårds turn out slow`ish and with more hand shock than I like, were as my Molly-type lever bows, are all sweet and fast shooters:-)

Mollies are my favorite too:-)

Cheers

Offline Stiks-N-Strings

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Re: Molle's and holmy's?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 05:05:29 am »
I got sinewed back molle about finished. As soon as the sinew is cured I just need to shoot her in and tweek the tiller and put the finishing touches on it.

 Sure have enjoyed all the info that came forward on this post.

 Thanks, Stiks
learned a great deal many things during my absence the last few years,
True friends are rare and priceless.
You always think it won’t happen to you, well it can it will. Such is life, it ain't fair and shows no indifference. Enjoy it anyway

Offline }|{opukc

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Best regards from Bulgaria - George