Which is more difficult to work with?

[Easternarcher]

YEsterday, I wanted to get the nocks on my ELB.  I don't have any horn for the traditional nocks, but I did have a supply of moose antler. So I cut and ground a set of nocks and glued them on. By the time I was done, I was muttering to myself that I'd never do it all from scratch again! Too much dust, too difficult to shape etc.

So since I've never used horn for nocks, question comes to mind....
How difficult is horn to work than say antler or bone, even wood. I'm almost to the point of just using antler or bone overlays on my ELB's instead of carved and bored traditional English nocks.
I like to keep things traditional if possible, but those antler nocks were tough!

[CraigMBeckett]

Easternarcher,

As I have not used either bone or antler I cannot give you a comparison but I have never found horn difficult to work with and it polishes up beautifully. I drill first then do rough shaping on a belt sander, then finer shaping with a Dremel and sanding sleeves, then move to emery cloth in tin strips and fine sandpaper then I polish using a cloth mop on a bench grinder. Sounds a lot but it is fairly quickly done, about the only problem is the fine dust and the smell, similar to singed hair.

Craig.

[Easternarcher]

Easternarcher,

As I have not used either bone or antler I cannot give you a comparison but I have never found horn difficult to work with and it polishes up beautifully. I drill first then do rough shaping on a belt sander, then finer shaping with a Dremel and sanding sleeves, then move to emery cloth in tin strips and fine sandpaper then I polish using a cloth mop on a bench grinder. Sounds a lot but it is fairly quickly done, about the only problem is the fine dust and the smell, similar to singed hair.

Craig.

I found antler to stink as well.
By your description, horn is easier to work than antler. Also, I expect the horn would be lighter in weight.
I follow a similar course as you. Drill first then shape on my small belt sander - some filing etc. these are not finished of course. Thgey need more shaping and polishing and the grooves cut. maybe today.

[Del the cat]

I agree with you, those 'traditional' style horn nocks are a right pain and an overlay is doubtless just as good and vastly quicker, simple and lighter.
I only do 'em because people want them on their bows. It's nice to do 'em once just to prove to yourself you can, bu the effort involved doesn't really get appreciated anyway.
proper medieval horn sidenocks mught be fun.
I quite like the smell and working properties of horn/bone /antler I think they are pretty similar/ Waterbuffalo horn is pretty easy to work, but I find it's the small size of the nocks which makes it tricky, and if you want them slim then you end up having to work with it down pretty thin.
I don't think any form of horn reinforcement is really necessary until you get to the v high draw weights or V thin tips.
Del

[Easternarcher]

I agree with you, those 'traditional' style horn nocks are a right pain and an overlay is doubtless just as good and vastly quicker, simple and lighter.
I only do 'em because people want them on their bows. It's nice to do 'em once just to prove to yourself you can, bu the effort involved doesn't really get appreciated anyway.
proper medieval horn sidenocks mught be fun.
I quite like the smell and working properties of horn/bone /antler I think they are pretty similar/ Waterbuffalo horn is pretty easy to work, but I find it's the small size of the nocks which makes it tricky, and if you want them slim then you end up having to work with it down pretty thin.
I don't think any form of horn reinforcement is really necessary until you get to the v high draw weights or V thin tips.
Del

Del, I'm with you! And I imangine the size needed for the trad horn nocks adds a fair bit of weight to the tips. Unessecary weight at that!
I think thinner tips with horn overlays would look just as good and improove performance  AND help with the hand shock issue.
Del, I'm like you, I like to try things just to proove I can do it. I've done that and may do it again in the future, but most likely will purchase some pre-formed English nocks instead.
Thanks

[nidrinr]

Moose and reindeer antler tips are a lot tougher to work than horn.. They also work better when reinforcing the nocks of arrows. I've had horn nock arrows split, but never antler from moose or reindeer. -But be careful not to use any of the antler core. (Bad)

[Easternarcher]

Moose and reindeer antler tips are a lot tougher to work than horn.. They also work better when reinforcing the nocks of arrows. I've had horn nock arrows split, but never antler from moose or reindeer. -But be careful not to use any of the antler core. (Bad)

Well on these, the cores are mostly drilled out anyways. I saw very little of the core in these tips I used.
I've got lots of antler, and many bow tips can be overlaid. I sanded and polished the nocks today and they do shine up quite nicely!
Now to cut the grooves...

[JW_Halverson]

I agree with the others that horn is much easier to work than antler or bone.  Beware of high speed and/or excesive pressure when you use a cloth mop on a grinding wheel.  It is possible to burn the horn when it overheats and then you will have to sand down below that damage and could possibly have to take the whole nock off and start over with a new one.

Don't ask how I know.

[Easternarcher]

Well, tonite I tackled the string grooves on my antler nocks. I think they came out OK for a first try.
Not great but I think they are functional. Obviously I got alittle close to the wood on one side as the nocks were not perfectly symetrical...Not all the way thru but close enough to see the color of the purpleheart under the shell of antler.
This only occurred on one side and it has lots of antler over the hickory backing.

I had to try the double grooves on the top nock. It just looked so cool. Believe me I pondered whether to try that or not, but since this bow has always been an experiment from word go! I went for it.
My first stringing with that stringing groove is going to be nerve racking for sure.
I'm sure there is at least 1/2in. of wood beyond the actual string groove so I think that will hold as the stringing groove doesn't take that much abuse. Not like the main grooves themselves....at least that is my hope.

MAybe someone can shed some wisdom on this thinking for me?
Thanks

[fishfinder401]

how do you string a bow with double nocks on only one side? i am planning a warbow with horn or antler( not sure if i feel like trying to make them myself) nocks and the pairs i always see have the double only on one side
please explain
thanks
noel

[Del the cat]

how do you string a bow with double nocks on only one side? i am planning a warbow with horn or antler( not sure if i feel like trying to make them myself) nocks and the pairs i always see have the double only on one side
please explain
thanks
noel

I put a double on both on the last couple of bows I built*, but if the bottom nock has a biggish groove the stringer loop can sit behind the loop/knot of the propper string.
Obviously on the top nock you need the second groove to hold the stringer loop out of the way leaving the main groove free to slide the propper string onto.
I'm all for doing your own thing and developing your own style of nock ( I'm working on a 6" long version with entwined Dolphins Mermaids and furry dice )
Del
BTW I use double loop strings rather than bowyers knot... 'cos I'm a rebel
* See my bowyers diary Friday 25th Feb, for pics, the bottom nock has a small second groove.

[Easternarcher]

how do you string a bow with double nocks on only one side? i am planning a warbow with horn or antler( not sure if i feel like trying to make them myself) nocks and the pairs i always see have the double only on one side
please explain
thanks
noel

I make my stringers with a leather pocket on the lower end to fit over the lower nock. Only a loop on the upper side to fit in the stringing groove, that way you have room to slide the string up into the maiin groove.

Del, I did not consider putting double grooves on both ends....hmmmm. That works too!
I also use a double looped flemish string Del, although the bowyers knot works well too. I still haven't made a new string for this one. Still using my tiller string for now.

[CraigMBeckett]

Easternarcher,

I make my stringers with a leather pocket on the lower end to fit over the lower nock. Only a loop on the upper side to fit in the stringing groove

You don't need to make leather pockets for the bottom nock just use a loop like you use in the top. The bottom groove does not need to be much different to the top to hold the loop. If the loop slips just widen/deepen the grove a bit. My stringers are made from the nylon cord every hardware store sells with loops tied in the ends.

My first stringing with that stringing groove is going to be nerve racking for sure.
I'm sure there is at least 1/2in. of wood beyond the actual string groove so I think that will hold as the stringing groove doesn't take that much abuse. Not like the main grooves themselves....at least that is my hope.

You should not have any problem, when stringing you are not subjecting the nock to great stress.

Craig.

[fishfinder401]

thaks for eltting me know, i thought that it might be done that way, but when i make mine, i think im going to go for double on both, as i woudl feel more comfortable stringing that way on a 100+bow, i realy cant wait to get started on it , its going to br AWESOME
thanks
noel

[Matt S.]

I think those antler nocks look really good!

I've used double grooves on both tips a couple of times, but after reading this thread, I may just start doing double grooves on one tip and an extra wide groove on the other.