Promoting bowhunting

[HatchA]

Hi fellas.  I'd appreciate any advice or information you could give me on this one...

As some/most of you know, I'm in Ireland and, though we have gun hunting, at the moment the use of bows isn't governed/legislated.  I'm not entirely sure whether that makes it illegal but I'm not going to give the cause a bad name by finding out the hard way.

OK...  what am I looking for?

To be honest - I don't honestly know!!  I would like to go to "The Powers That Be" with a proposition to legalise bowhunting in Ireland but I don't want to walk in off the street unprepared.  I suppose I'm looking for information on how it became legalised in other countries.  I think I'm right in saying Hill and Bear were instrumental in championing this for the U.S?  Rather than looking for "the life and times of..." etc., I'm more interested in what the used to prove that bows could be used to successfully hunt animals, as an alternative to firearms.

I understand that there's a heritage of using bows for hunting in the U.S. that Ireland doesn't seem to have - or at least, doesn't cherish and pass on to it's generations of children.  In this, I'm starting on a back-foot.  I can foresee a LOT of simple ignorance facing me in this quest - I'd like to be able to put down as much clear, concise, recorded and documented PROOF that bowhunting is perfectly acceptable as a means to hunt game.

We have a general election coming up in two weeks and the Green party will be leaving their comfy seats of office, after introducing a legacy of carbon taxes, bans on hunting stags (for whatever reason I don't know - probably a misguided approach at stopping the reduction of the deer population) and other non-sensical, tree-hugging policies that do bugger all to make any REAL difference in the long run.

I think now is a good time to be asking future government members what they're take on bowhunting is.

Someone suggested to me that I contact a local gun club and talk with them regarding the legalities of hunting etc.  Might be a good place to start??

Deer hunting in Ireland is quite different to the U.S. in that we have seasons for specific types (breed/sex etc) but there doesn't seem to be any limit to the amount of these that you can bag, unlike the tag system.  Here's the page with all the info, for those interested...  ..w.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/recreational_activities_in_ireland/sport_and_leisure/deer_licences.html

On closer inspection of the rules, they make mention of "You will be prosecuted for hunting deer with an inappropriate firearm or by any other means."  so I guess it's going to be an uphill battle...

Any and all advice, info, help with this would be very much appreciated guys.

Thanks,  Steve.

[John K]

Good luck in your quest, not sure this will help, but i found it an interesting read. http://www.stickbow.com/stickbow/history/roycase.HTM

[Stoker]

Just a thought..When we want to change a season or add something to a season.It helps when going to the govt to have support behind you,i.e.fish and game assoc. pheasents forever, elk foundation. Anybody that may be involved in your cause.The first question the govt asks is "How many people?". Doesn't hurt to poke around to see the hoops you will jump through.It may take years.But keep constant pressure on them.They like it when people give up after a year or so.Walk softly and carry a big stick.
Thanks Leroy

[Jesse]

Stoker gave good advice. It's going to be an uphill battle for sure but you have to start somewhere. I think the idea that hunting with a bow is somehow cruel and unnecessarily painful to the animal is a mindset that needs to be changed.  Talk about how you dont really feel the pain from a sharp razor cut. Arrows kill quickly by making a fast wide incision and sometimes a deer will return to feeding until it falls over from blood loss, unaware of it's fatal injury. Compare this to the long painful way a deer dies from being ripped apart by natural predators or by a bullet that misses the mark and blows off a leg.  I have personally seen deer with a broadhead inside them from a misplaced shot by someone years prior. The wound was completely healed and the tissue grown around the broadhead. Often if a deer is not hit in the vitals it will simply recover. Animals that are butchered in the slaughter house are not always treated the most humane. Ask them if they had their choice would they rather be an animal raised to be butchered in a slaughter house or take there chances as a free creature in the wild with a few bow hunters, able to use their instincts to avoid being shot.
I would never suggest this in a place where bow hunting is legal but as a start you could suggest a shooting test to get a license. Like being able to hit the vitals at 15 yards or something.

[Pat B]

Hatch, contact some of the German guys. They are going through the same thing but have more organization. Frank(medicinewheel) or Uwe might be able to give you some ideas.
  Good luck with your endevor. I think education is the key. Most folks have no idea the effectiveness of a hunting bow and arrow.
A lot more humane kill than a fire arm. IMO

[HatchA]

Thanks for the input guys.

Stoker - Just after I posted this topic I emailed the chairman of the Irish Deer Society enquiring about what kind of recommendations they'd look for in the equipment etc.  No reply yet so I'll give him a couple more days before I start nagging again

Jesse - excellent comments!  Thank you!!  Here (as in the States, I'm sure) we have a firearms test which hunters have to pass before they get granted a deer license.  I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever about the same for a bow.  I'd actually press for one to be brought in - help to sort out the competent from the dangerous.

Pat - I'll get right on that!!  Thanks.  If the Germans are successful in their efforts, perhaps I could use it as a precident for Ireland - given that we're all one great big happy European Union 'n' all...   

Am I right in saying/thinking that Fred Bear killed a Kodiak bear with his bow to prove that it could be done?  Or is that just an "old archer's tale"?   

Another story I've been told is of Howard Hill accepting a bet from a Texan that he couldn't kill an elephant with his bow...  so he did.  Several times.

I'm not saying I'm going to go shooting arrows into Irish animals to prove they can be as effective as bullets but it's more the "correct information" about how legalised bowhunting was fought for in the States that I'm in search of.  I can present those facts to whoever I need to over here as part of my arguement.

Thanks again,

Steve.

[Jesse]

Steve-- in the states we dont have any form of shooting test to get a license. We just have a hunters education/ safety course. In WI. everyone born after 1973 must take the test.
Bow hunting in the US started right here in WI. in 1931 and has been a huge success. Here is a great article about it. http://dnr.wi.gov/wnrmag/html/stories/1996/oct96/bowhunt.htm
Many other countries/continents," most actually", allow bow hunting. Some of them included are Denmark,France,Spain,Portugal,Italy,Hungary,Finland,Bulgaria,Slovenia. Also Canada,New Zealand,Australia,Russia,Africa, and South America, I saw a report that it is was very recently legalized in Sweden for small game as well.  Hope this helps

[HatchA]

Thank you SO much, Jesse!! 

[Jesse]

Thank you SO much, Jesse!! 

Your very welcome

[Stoker]

That's a very good article Jesse Thanks for sharing.I really enjoyed it Power of the people.
HatchA just a thought if we as a community can gather info like this from all the states and provinces of Canada and as PatB recommended to get a hold of the German and other european nations.This could really help you on your quest.I know a little muscle in the Alberta trad bowhunters assoc.If we can help I'm sure we will.Keep the faith
Thanks Leroy

Spelling and grammer not the resposiblity of auther

[HatchA]

Thanks Stoker, that's a great idea!  Not just for my quest but for anyone in a similar position in the future...

[HatchA]

Thought I'd give a little update on things here...

Up until Friday just gone I still hadn't gotten any reply from my initial mail.  I looked into the Society's site again and found there are "regional branches" so I sent a mail at almost two thirty AM on Saturday morning to the chairman of, what would be considered my nearest branch - based about 90 miles away from me.  I won't lie to you - it was a long and (hopefully) informative mail in which I hoped to get across my sincerity and passion in an effort to be taken seriously.  I think it may have worked because the chairman's invited me to discuss the matter further with him.

I reckon (and I know it's not good to assume but anyway...) that he's a firearm hunter by upbringing and belief.  As below in a copy of his reply to me, he's already had discussions with European bowhunters and still falls short of being convinced.  I've invited a friend/bowhunter along to the talks as he has actual experience of hunting (albeit with a compound) in South Africa and has some amazing pictures on his facebook page too.  He's told me about shooting a doe as she lays on the ground.  The doe only flinching slightly as the arrow passes through her and then she falls asleep and never wakes.  How can that be considered "inhumane"??  Hopefully we'll be able to open some eyes and educate people, or at least we'll know what we're up against and I can then petition the CIC in Europe (that he mentions) and take things from there.

Here's his response to me...

"Dear Stephen, Your E-Mail is most interesting although as you expect i have issues with your opinions. Re bowhunting i have had this debate with other bowhunters within CIC in Europe and i am still not convinced? Perhaps you would like to come and visit Screebe and continue the disscusion, i can talk about deer till the cows come home. I look forward to meeting you, best wishes Paul Wood"


I wasn't going to post my email to him but if anyone wants to see it, maybe I should and then people could tell me where I went wrong and what needs to be amended at the meeting?  All criticism appreciated 

Thanks,

Steve.

[Stoker]

A foot in the door.He didn't say NO.
Thanks Leroy

[HatchA]

Thanks Leroy.

I just got off the phone with the guy I want to bring along with me - he pointed out many pitfalls and obstacles that stand in my path and I gotta say...  it's daunting.

I gotta convince a gun-hunting culture that bowhunting is effective - Considering they've pretty much had free reign to hunt deer for as long as it's been around, how are they going to feel about "sharing" the deer - let alone allowing the bows in first to pick off all the best specimens...?

If bowhunting gets passed in Ireland, it'll need to be governed and regulated - who will they turn to for this??  The existing archery governing board, most likely - which by all accounts is run by idiots more interested in the "social aspect" of archery rather than the "competitive aspect".  I'm not particularly interested in archery competitions but I do understand that competitiveness breeds the necessity to be GOOD at what you do.  If you're going to go down that road, then 95 times out of 100, you'll end up getting the arrow where you want it, instead of 75 or even 85 times.  It all leads to accuracy.

I gotta go out now but I must admit - I'm feeling pretty f*ckin' sh!tty about all this right now.

Apologies for the mini-rant.

[Parnell]

A very interesting thread.  I'll be watching and I do hope things go in your favor.