earth pigment paint bow question

[wally]

I've got some earth pigment powder (crushed rock?) and have used it to decorate a bow using water proof wood glue (PVA) asa fixative and used hide glue and they both work O/K.
I'm now sinew backing a short Hupo type bow which will be fully painted. On my last layer of sinew can I mix, say red ochre with the hide glue to give a coloured background to decorate on?

[Bevan R.]

I would suggest trying it on a scrap piece before you do your bow.

[okiecountryboy]

I would suggest trying it on a scrap piece before you do your bow.

I agree. You wouldn't have to use much. I would use a thin strip of wood, lay down the colored backing, let it dry, then bend the heck out of it. See what happens.

Ron

[Bevan R.]

I would suggest trying it on a scrap piece before you do your bow.

I agree. You wouldn't have to use much. I would use a thin strip of wood, lay down the colored backing, let it dry, then bend the heck out of it. See what happens.

This would also give you the ability to adjust the color to what you are wanting.

[animus_divinus]

are you talking about applying this the way we used to apply glitter to paper in gradeschool?... apply the glue, or your adhesive of choice to what you want to decorate.. then sprinkle the crushed rock or dust over it?... actually, sounds like it might not be too bad of an idea for grip texture on the handle if the glue held it on tight enough

however.. what many fail to realize that modern synthetic glues although have a longer shelf life.. are quite inferior to the properties of hide glue.. and hide glue can be made waterproof my smoking it over a wood fire (wood vapor contains aldehydes which react with the hide glue to make it water insoluable)... also, hide glue has recently been proven to exist 35,000 years ago, and birch/pine oils have been used even longer... so if you want to go primitive, you can go all-out and still get a good quality end result

[wally]

No to your first part, I was thinking of actually mixing pigment it in with the hide glue, then when applied with sinew will give a base colour background for further decorations.
 Thanks to your next tip. I've never heard of smoking hide glue over wood fire? charcoal fire? to waterproof it. Has anyone actually done this and tested results?

[HoBow]

Never tried it with sinew, but works with leather.

[Pat B]

James Parker used prickley pear cactus juice as a carrier for the pigment paint he used on the Plains style bow he just won BOY with.

[mullet]

 I think james used the cactus juice for a sealer and rotten egg whites for a carrier.

[wally]

We're a little short of prickly pear juice here in London, England
A friend Mark Hill used egg yolk as a carrier but it came off in rain.
I have used wood glue successfully and shall soon be trying hide glue. I was really asking if I mixed the pigment with the hot hide glue that I used to glue final sinew layer would that give me a good base colour for later decoration.
Thanks for interest and information so far.
I've finished first sinew layer with the 36" NTN Hupo bow clamped in reflex. (guessed at how much)
I was going to put 4 layers on but does anyone know if three would be enough on such a small bow?

[mullet]

 Wally,

I really don't think you will gain any advantage by putting on 4 layers of sinew. I think 2 layers and a thin layer down the center would be plenty. And, I have mixed pigment with hide glue, it will do what you want.

[Pat B]

Wally, James Parker ask me where he could get prickley pear and I told him to try a grocery store or a Mexican food store. He found it in the produce dept. of his local grocery. One world, ya know! 

[shikari]

I would suggest that you lay the sinew on with just hide glue and once it has dried you can mix the pigment in with  thick concentration of hideglue and literally paint over the sinew with the coloured hideglue paint.The mughal crabbows were done this way and some of them still retain the original vibrant colours,they were seled over the decorations with varnish.

[toomanyknots]

"I really don't think you will gain any advantage by putting on 4 layers of sinew."

I totally disagree. The less sinew applied the less you'll notice it. The more sinew, the more reflex is noticed, the less set, but also the more it will affect tiller and have tiller adjustments down the road. This is my experience. 

[wally]

I'm confused a bit now I've put on first layer and thought after reading post that I could get away with two layers, but toomanyknots has experience and says the more layers the better.
I suppose I could split it and put on 3 layers? Anybody else had experience making these short 36" Hupa bows?
All help/advice gratefully receieved