woodland archery / rudder bows

[adb]

Everyone has an opinion, and the freedom to express it. The truth is the truth. Our responsibility is to express our opinions with respect, and I believe everyone has done that so far.

[Steve Milbocker]

But shouldn't PA have some standard for people who they permit to advertise on their website?  If someone has a history of ripping people off, should they continue to let this person advertise?  At what point the the magazine become culpable for the behavior of its advertisers when it knows of their less-than-ideal behavior?

I agree Eric. If this was just a random complaint it would be one thing, but IMO there are enough complaints to  substantiate the fact there is a problem with Rudder bows products and service. People should be made aware.

[okiecountryboy]

Yup
That's the one El D. Thanks for posting again.

Ron

[brian melton]

      I totally understand your viewpoints, and it is true everyone has a opinion. I also would assume that PA is in the business to make MONEY. I know if it were my mag regardless of how I FEEL it would be in the best interest to stay neutral, having something like this on their message board is Not NEUTRAL......bottom line guys 10 peoples subscriptions do NOT outweigh the money that comes in for advertisement. As a advertiser  I would feel betrayed by the MAG I am sending my money too. If PA feels Jim is ripping people off then let them deal with it......that is their choice. Today I get to go spend about $1500 in advertisement with a local phone book, if they bad mouthed ME in anyway I gurantee I would be aggressively seeking compensation. Opinions are the responsibility of the person that makes them, but to me when a board knowingly lets these opinions to possibly cause harm to ones business.....you begin to teeter on the edge of indorsement? Just a thought.

     It may seem as though I am defending Jim.....I am not!! I do wonder why when the stave was sent the question of a glue line was NOT addressed from the time the gentlemen got the blank??? Then he worked it??? On the other hand I wonder why Jim being a proffesional bowyer did not catch the flaw??? Seems there was more than one flaw (the knot) and IF this was a begginer stave it would seem Jim chose poorly on the belly wood. I have no idea how much product is moved through Jims shop. Is there the possibility that he has someone beneath him doing some of his work, where he never really inspected the wood??? Is it possible??? Regardless Jim SHOULD personally inspect every piece that goes out......just something to think about???

     And to the question whether PA should have some kind of criteria for advertisers..........NO! Could you amagine the phone book with some sort of litmus test for advertisers give me a break!!! There are other avenues to complain about ones work.......BUT not on a site that is directly conected to the advertising source....If this thread was on ANY OTHER site I would not have made these comments, but the site he pays for.....makes me wonder?? I really wish Marc, or another adminastrator would clarify PAs position.

Brian

[Hrothgar]

This discussion tends to be re-occurring, and I'm not taking I sides.  However, the initial problem Douglasb posted about concerned a kit that was purchased from Woodland Archery --presumably a different company than Rudderbows. Any misrepresentation of Douglasb's bow, or failure on the part of the company to stand by their product, should go back to the company the bow kit was purchased from; not a second, and possibly nonlibel company.  If Woodland Archery is pushing Jim's product (or Howard Hill's, or Martin's, or whoever's) the beef is still with Woodland.
We probably should be careful where this post has headed. JMO.

[Steve Milbocker]

With this site actually being a business and not just a public forum, I can see your point Brian. I didn't really look at it that way.

[NTD]

Thank you Scott, You said it much more graciously than I was going to.

[brian melton]

Seems funny that the people on here think they are on a board of trustees to advise PA of potential problem advertisors....so be it...

 Scott you are not collecting a check from PA, you have a job (i assume) somewhere else. So, till you are........ you, I, everyone is on this board with at best a opinion....nothing more.

[sailordad]

brian,the one thing i think you ar forgetting here is
douglasb asked people for their opinions of WOODLAND ARCHERY/RUDDERBOWS
so we are EXPRESSING OUR OPINIONS 
he asked,we responded
all be it mostly negative(this comes from a guy who used to defend Jim quit regularly on here,that being me)
but after getting inferior product,i refuse to defend him anymore
but will freely express to others my feeling when asked
once again,he asked,we responded

[adb]

brian,the one thing i think you ar forgetting here is
douglasb asked people for their opinions of WOODLAND ARCHERY/RUDDERBOWS
so we are EXPRESSING OUR OPINIONS 
he asked,we responded
all be it mostly negative(this comes from a guy who used to defend Jim quit regularly on here,that being me)
but after getting inferior product,i refuse to defend him anymore
but will freely express to others my feeling when asked
once again,he asked,we responded

Amen. He asked, we answered.

[brian melton]

Scott,

                I think you are right, and see that emotions can run high in these situtations. I was trying to bring attention to some the way it could be viewed. Ultimately PA has to make a decision......or Not..... Have a great day


                I hope all that feel that got a bad deal can straighten it out with whatever company you have had problems with........and to the companies......if this is true, is it worth it?

[JW_Halverson]

For those that have had bad experiences with a particular business, have you gone to the business's respecticve state's Better Business Bureau?  It's not a government agency, so it has no legal recourse, but it can help you with resolutions and claim a 70% resolution rate. 

[medicinewheel]

Rudderbows... not again... 

That's what I meant: soon as the name pops up things bounce to the bad side, anger arises, discussions go misunderstood and so forth.

[1776J]

I do wonder why when the stave was sent the question of a glue line was NOT addressed from the time the gentlemen got the blank??? Then he worked it??? On the other hand I wonder why Jim being a proffesional bowyer did not catch the flaw??? Seems there was more than one flaw (the knot) and IF this was a begginer stave it would seem Jim chose poorly on the belly wood. I have no idea how much product is moved through Jims shop. Is there the possibility that he has someone beneath him doing some of his work, where he never really inspected the wood??? Is it possible??? Regardless Jim SHOULD personally inspect every piece that goes out......just something to think about???

If this was in reference to "my" blank that I had both a glue lam issue and knot issue with... BOTH were addressed RIGHT away with him,.... he "assured" me it was A-Ok.  That was clearly stated several times that no work was done to it UNTIL I had first talked with Jim.  I learned the hard way.
It was "worked" after Jimbo said things were peachy,...NOT BEFORE.
In the end he ripped me off big time, promised a "full refund" which I've never seen!  Real stand up fellow.

Well, I have much, much better and important things to attend to here then rehash all that horror,....

I just wanted to re-clarify what was already clarified a while back that's all.

Oh, and I see ya celebrated a birthday just recently Brian?...
Happy Birthday!  :-)

[douglasb]

hi guys,
             WOW, i had no idea that by me asking if anyone has had any experience with woodland archery / rudder bows, that it would have opened such a can of worms. it was never my intention to bash anyone ,or discredit anyones ability or talent . i am new to pa and dont want to get off on the wrong foot . its only natural to inquire about a company or companies when you have a bad experience . its obvious at this point that there is a definate problem with woodland archery /rudderbows  by the number of responses, again i am new to primitive archery i wanted to build my own bow but i will not let a bad experience discourage me from enjoying this sport/hobby. its just like everything else you cut your losses and move on