ERC question.

[Mark Anderson]

Well I have finally found a suitable ERC to cut and stave out. Got four staves out of it one is clean all the way one has one knot just out of the handle the other two may be spliced to make one fairly clean bow. all are 76".
My question is how much ring violation can I get away with if backing with rawhide or sinew? I started taking the second stave down to close to bow size (want to save the first for when I get nore experience with ERC) but the rings are so fine in just Scraping cambium off I got through a ring or two in spots. It has a high crown like some ERC does in spots.
Is it possible to de-crown not worrying much about ring violation if backing it, or should I really try to stay on one ring?
Sap wood is thick in this so I may not have much heartwood save for some in the handle unless I take a good 1/2 inch off of it.

Thanks
Mark

[bcbull]

save all ur sap brp thasts stronger than heart wood  dont try chasin ring s on it just remover the bark bulid the bow with the sap and heart wood make it wide and long lot s time ya dont even need to back sap wood  brock

[Hank]

You have to have very good hand/eye coordination and super keen eyes to successfully chase one ring in ERC. They are often so thin that violation is inevitable. I gave up trying to make red cedar self bows a couple years ago. They just don't last very long. Now it's standard practice to back every one. Rawhide, linen and burlap makes a good backing. As a general rule keep a ratio of 1/3 white wood to 2/3 red wood when using one of these materials as backing. Hickory makes good backing too but keep it relatively thin. Try to keep some of the white wood if a hickory back is used. Bamboo and sinew is too much and will crush the wood in the belly. So, to answer your question, you can forget about chasing a ring. Take off the crown and add backing of your choice. Best of luck with your project!

Hank

[bcbull]

HANKS RIGHT  ONLY 1 THING I DO DIFFRENT I GO 50/50 SAP TO HEART WOOD IV MADE OVER 30  OF EM  THAT WAY NO PLMS SOME 15 YEARS AGO STILL SHOOTIN  BROCK

[bcbull]

HANKS RIGHT  ONLY 1 THING I DO DIFFRENT I GO 50/50 SAP TO HEART WOOD IV MADE OVER 30  OF EM  THAT WAY NO PLMS SOME 15 YEARS AGO STILL SHOOTIN  BROCK

[Mark Anderson]

Thanks guys. That is exactally what I needed to know!
Mark

[Hank]

You're quite welcome Mark. If you like, have a look at my latest red cedar build.

[sweeney3]

I am working on a 66" ERC stave right now and have finally got a ring chased all the way down...I think.  It took me several tries, so there isn't too much sapwood left.  That's okay because I really want most of the wood to be heartwood.  I can get creamy white wood any old place.  You can only get that vibrant red from ERC and a couple others.  I have just finished taking the wraps off of the rawhide back.  I'm not even trying to tiller it without a back, even with a decent ring on the back.  That stuff is explosive.  I'd say back it for sure.

[Sidewinder]

Hank I checked out your bow thread build along. Great job and gorgeous bow. Danny

[Mark Anderson]

Hank, great build along. It answered even more questions that I didn't know I had!!!
So far I've got it planed down to about a 1/4" of sapwood and all is good so far.  I will be making it an American longbow style 68" tip to tip draw weight will be whatever it will be, not worried about that really.
I will try to get some pictures up early next week when I get a chance.
It only has one knot and that is just out of the fade about 1" so I'm not to worried about it.

Also does anyone know if cedar will benefit from heat treating?
Mark

[Hank]

Mark, Danny, thanks. It was a lot of fun building that one.

I don't know about heat treating red cedar Mark. Never tried it. But, and this is pure speculation, it seems to me that it would become brittle sooner. It's been my experience that as ERC ages it goes brittle. It's hard, for me anyway, to teach well seasoned red cedar to bend without breaking. That's why I work it fairly green, teach it to bend early then when it ages it will keep the memory and be less apt to detonate in your hand. Maybe heat treating would accelerate the aging process and create brittle wood sooner? Hmmm... perhaps an experiment is in order?

Hank