Yellowheart glue up problems.

[Tim B]

I am making a tri lam with a red oak backing, brazillian rosewood core and yellowheart belly and glued it up with tite bond 3 and used acetone on all the wood before gluing and the yellowheart will not stay attached. It is a pyramid style deflex reflex that I haven't even started tillering yet but when I slightly tried flexing the bow it popped below the handle and separated in the yellowheart only. Any thoughts on why?

[Pat B]

With TBIII you can delaminate the whole bow with heat and start the glue up again. You might want to try Urac next time.
  I've never worked with yellowwood so I don't know about it's specifics.  Was red oak your best option for a backing. Other woods would be more suitable for that task.

[Bernhard Langbogen]

I think you had a very oiled wood. Its better you use a two component glue like Bindan-CinŽ boat glue.

Bindan-CinŽ boat glue

Two-component, joint-filling, highly water-resistant resorcinol resin adhesive. Suitable for all wood joints (even if wood is very moist and has a high resin content, like exotic woods) as well as wood-plastic joints. The glue joints, which dry to a dark brown, are seawater resistant (B4) and temperature resistant up to 200°C.

I hope it help you.

Bernhard

[Easternarcher]

I am making a tri lam with a red oak backing, brazillian rosewood core and yellowheart belly and glued it up with tite bond 3 and used acetone on all the wood before gluing and the yellowheart will not stay attached. It is a pyramid style deflex reflex that I haven't even started tillering yet but when I slightly tried flexing the bow it popped below the handle and separated in the yellowheart only. Any thoughts on why?

Pics would help alot. If the joint isn't pretty tight(smooth) the TB3 may not hold as well. I use Urac for my glue-up and haven't had any troubles with woods like IPE and Osage. I think Ipe would be more oily than Yellowheart.
Post a pic or two and maybe folks can help better.

[Tim B]

Pat I only used the red oak backing because I have made so many others with bamboo and wanted to try it since the grain was perfectly vertical with no run outs. I do have Urac and will use it to finish the glue up. I was able to separate the lam with my knife and will only have to block sand again. The surfaces were smooth before the glue up and had no starvation that was visible but when I separated the lams it looked like the glue didn't adhere very well to the rosewood. I'll post pics here in a minute.

[Tim B]

Here are some pics.

[Marc St Louis]

I've used Yellowheart and TB3 without your problems.  Are you sure the glue is coming off the Yellowheart and not the Rosewood?  I have both and the Rosewood is a much oilier wood than the Yellowheart

[Jesse]

You got good advice on the glue. That riser has me a bit worried. Not saying it will but it looks likely to pop off. I like to use thin layers and longer fades or have the belly ramp up to the glued on riser if its going to be a solid block like that. You might get away with it if its tillered to be stiff near the fades. Maybe you have a power lam that I just cant see.

[Tim B]

The glue didn't stick to the rosewood but did to the yellowheart. Even though I used acetone it still failed so I'll use Urac next. Jesse the handle will end up being blended into the fade on top and through the yellowheart and will not bend until into the rosewood. It is too thick and I wanted a fade of the yellowheart into the rosewood and then back to yellowheart near the tips for contrast.

[Jesse]

The glue didn't stick to the rosewood but did to the yellowheart. Even though I used acetone it still failed so I'll use Urac next. Jesse the handle will end up being blended into the fade on top and through the yellowheart and will not bend until into the rosewood. It is too thick and I wanted a fade of the yellowheart into the rosewood and then back to yellowheart near the tips for contrast.

Ahh ok. Should look nice

[Tim B]

So in between working too many hours and trying to make this into a working bow after scraping carefully and trying not to have any bend from just out of the fades through the handle I was almost there with the tillering when POP! The handle that was glued to the yellow heart belly riped the yellow heart off the belly wood and it looks like the glue failed again even after I used enough to make a coating on my shoes and deck that could have two glue ups. For some reason it is not sticking to the Brazilian redwood very good. The red oak back also gave way in the cut in shelf being quarter sawn so this bow is scrapped with much learned. The next glue up will be done with URAC since the Tite Bond III didn't work with these woods even though they were as flat as could be. I won't be using quarter sawn red oak as a backing either. I'll stick to plain sawn or boo backs from now on. The handle came out unscathed though, not a total waste of wood!

[Bevan R.]

Save the rosewood and make knife handles out of it.

Bevan

[Tim B]

And a lot of overlays or handle wood. The bow was looking like a screamer too. Oh well, lesson learned.

[Pat B]

You can add a power lam between two of the layers to stiffen up the handle area. I've never done one but basically it is a short lam(12" to 15" mol) that tapers to a feathered edge at each end.

[Tim B]

That's what I'll try on the next one. I have more of all the woods I used on this bow but will use a different back as well as the power lam. Learned a good lesson after all the work put into this one for the next. Gotta love it.