Laying out a bow on Osage (what can be done, what can't to get around knots)?

[1776J]

I don't like that layout depicted with the black lines around the knot. I think it may break there. I much prefer the layout shown by the red lines in the knotted area. Also, I am a little confused as the why you went so far to the right for the layout. Is there a reason? I usually draw a line down the middle of the stave following the lateral grain and then measure on either side of the line but leaving enough wood around knots so that the grain swirls.  Jawge

Thanks George.
I was (with the black lines) sort of experimenting visually,... getting an idea for what "might" be possible.

I'm certainly going with the layout of just marking it down the c=enter of the wood, including the knots and so forth.  (as seen by red arrows in photo)

Thanks bud!  Much appreciated!!

[1776J]

And this.
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/osage.html

Thank yoiu,... I was just reviewing that actually,... thanks for the link.

[George Tsoukalas]

Again, I'd go down the center following the lateral grain and measure on each side for your width. Let the grain swirl around the knots. Jawge

[1776J]

Again, I'd go down the center following the lateral grain and measure on each side for your width. Let the grain swirl around the knots. Jawge

Will do Jawge!

Thanks everyone!

[1776J]

Oh, one question regarding "when" to sinew the back of the bow??

I see some do it after, some even do it before the bow is really shaped much at all, (Ed Scott is one who sinews the backs before shaping the bow)

What do you guys generally do?
At what stage of the building process would I want to sinew the back?
Beginning,...middle,...or end after final tillering?

Thanks much!

[Postman]

How short to you want the bow to be? Nice stave - I don't think you need sinew, either. especially since you have other projects "on the  way"  BTW, congrats !

[George Tsoukalas]

Why are you sinewing? Not saying you shouldn't. Just wondering why. Jawge

[1776J]

How short to you want the bow to be? Nice stave - I don't think you need sinew, either. especially since you have other projects "on the  way"  BTW, congrats !

Looking to go 58".
50-55 # draw weight at 27".

Haha,...yeah coming soon!

[1776J]

Why are you sinewing? Not saying you shouldn't. Just wondering why. Jawge

To be on the safe side was the thought.  This way if something should want to try giving out, the sinew won't allow it.
Not to mention with a 58" bow with a reflex/reflex design I figured it would add strength that's all.

[gstoneberg]

Assuming I'm sinewing because I don't trust the back, normally I sinew once I feel good about the tiller, after it's braced and have it maybe at 20-25" of draw...very close to being done.  You will likely have to do some tillering adjustments after the sinew dries but I like the bow mostly tillered with the bend like I want before I sinew back.  The more distrust I have of the bow's back, the earlier I sinew.  The last bow I did I knew would get hunted hard and wanted to be sure it held up.  I completed it before I backed it.

I suspect others may do it differently, but that's what I do. 

George

[1776J]

Assuming I'm sinewing because I don't trust the back, normally I sinew once I feel good about the tiller, after it's braced and have it maybe at 20-25" of draw...very close to being done.  You will likely have to do some tillering adjustments after the sinew dries but I like the bow mostly tillered with the bend like I want before I sinew back.  The more distrust I have of the bow's back, the earlier I sinew.  The last bow I did I knew would get hunted hard and wanted to be sure it held up.  I completed it before I backed it.

I suspect others may do it differently, but that's what I do. 

George

Thank you George.  That's the idea with all of the bows I'll build from here on in,... for hunting, not just for looks.

[JW_Halverson]

Forget about the red marks or the brown marks or the black marks...go help the lady that is getting the stretch marks.  Dude, YOU OWE HER!  And when the kid is 34 yrs old and moves out of the house you can go back and pick up the bow stave and get back to work.

[gstoneberg]

Thank you George.  That's the idea with all of the bows I'll build from here on in,... for hunting, not just for looks.

Well friend, you're going to need to seal it up well if you will hunt it hard.  Bows for me are normally unbacked because they're low maintenance.  Sinew has to be carefully sealed and is moisture sensitive.  I think the best hunting bows are unbacked because they are pretty impervious to weather,  I should have been more specific on that last bow.  I had started it decades ago but wasn't good enough at bending wood to finish it.  After learning the dry heat bending method I went back to that bow and finished it for a friend that had been very ill and wanted a character bow.  The bow was too light as I'd left it so I piked about 6" off each end, sinew backed it to be sure it wouldn't break on him when he was hunting it and put snakeskin on it to seal it.  My friend has sold all his compounds and now carries just the osage.  Gotta love that.

George

[gstoneberg]

If you'll permit me a short hijack, I have some pictures that illustrate how to handle difficult knots in a bow.  I call this my holey bow:



Notice how there is extra depth of wood at the knot, several growth rings.  That's to make that spot stiff.  If you put your thumb over the knot you'll see the gentle taper in this bow extends all the way to the tip.  Here it is full length:





As you can see, this bow is sinew backed, to protect the bow back because of the knot.  Here it is from the back:



and from the belly:



I just love the way osage ages.  That bow is about 15 years old.  It is my favorite bow and the first bow I ever sinew backed.  I took a fat young buck with it and then retired it.  Anyway, the safest place in your limb for a big knot is dead center.  Leave some wood around it, but if you see discoloration around the knot like in this one, make that spot non-bending.  That dark wood is hard and brittle.  If you try to make it bend it will break.  I could only draw this bow about 23", it just didn't have enough working limb and beyond that point the knot began to bend.  Smaller knots are no problem and you can tiller your bow as though they weren't there.  Again, the safest place for them is in the center.

Sorry for the distraction from your beautiful stave.

George

[1776J]

If you'll permit me a short hijack, I have some pictures that illustrate how to handle difficult knots in a bow.  I call this my holey bow:



Notice how there is extra depth of wood at the knot, several growth rings.  That's to make that spot stiff.  If you put your thumb over the knot you'll see the gentle taper in this bow extends all the way to the tip.  Here it is full length:





As you can see, this bow is sinew backed, to protect the bow back because of the knot.  Here it is from the back:



and from the belly:



I just love the way osage ages.  That bow is about 15 years old.  It is my favorite bow and the first bow I ever sinew backed.  I took a fat young buck with it and then retired it.  Anyway, the safest place in your limb for a big knot is dead center.  Leave some wood around it, but if you see discoloration around the knot like in this one, make that spot non-bending.  That dark wood is hard and brittle.  If you try to make it bend it will break.  I could only draw this bow about 23", it just didn't have enough working limb and beyond that point the knot began to bend.  Smaller knots are no problem and you can tiller your bow as though they weren't there.  Again, the safest place for them is in the center.

Sorry for the distraction from your beautiful stave.

George

No, no that is a wild bow!  well done!!