Author Topic: Penobscot Project...  (Read 6648 times)

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Offline Kegan

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Penobscot Project...
« on: December 10, 2010, 07:55:23 pm »
Well... I typed a huge thing about all I'd done. Then it got lost somehow. Forgive me if this is a bit shorter :P

Over on PP Rob ventured to see if anyone was working outside the box and building bows that were new, different, or broke the rules. Between that and the recent string of flatbow failures I've had, I decided to finally go about building anothre Penobscot. Not new, different, or even outside the box, but unusual enough I'd say.

I started this project with three goals or questions:
1. Can I build a hunting weight bow with good performance from what would otherwise be scrap wood?
2. Will it be easier to build two D bows, or a mantra flatbow?
3. How close or far off are my thoughts on Penobscots?

To address the first inquiry I started with scraps. The back bow is from billets that were too short for splicing, too narrow for take downs, and too reflexed for arrows. At two or three years old though, the wood was sound and the bark came off easily. I had enough for four or five small back bows this way. The main bow is from a stave that was too thin and propellered to be used for a regular flatbow. Though clean, it has twist and splinters. Perfect for this experiment.

I roughed the little bow out, 35" long, 1" wide, and 1/2" thick at the center tapering to 1/4" tips. It started out heavy enough but the uneven bend of the limbs resulted in an uneven tiller and I wound up lightenning it a bit too much. At this point I grabbed and roughed out its sister stave as a back up back bow.The back up bow is much cleaner and 5/8" to 3/8" at the tips.

I steamed the back bow into about 3" of reflex and put it in the hot box. I'm hoping it will boost the weight of the main bow from about 30# to 65-70#. At the same time, I'm hoping the bow will be heavy enough and have enough dry fire speed so that upon release, the back bow won't get in the way of the main bow's limbs. At the same time, I'm hoping it's heavy enough that if it encounters resistence from the main bow's limbs, it won't be stopped but actually helps pull them through- if only a little. If this one doesn't work, hopefully my back up bow (sinewed if necessary) will work.

The main bow is 68" long, 1 1/4" or so wide, and a real splinter of a stave. This stave is only a few months old, but rather green. I roughed it out somewhat and let it dry, at which point it stiffened considerably. I reduced it down to 5/8" thick at the center tapering to 3/8" tips and set about steaming it. The shape I'm going with is the same one I use for my hybrids. Now, I have no idea if this will help any with the Penobscot performance, but I want to try a Creek style bow with alot of D/R in a D bow, a D/R/D bow if you will. I have another stave ready, but needed to test it out. This bow got volunteered. The bow is bending in a perfect arc, feeling around 40-50# (it threw me off, as I normaly hope for 70# or more at this point ;)). At this point if shortened and sinewed it would have made a great little hunting bow without alot of work. But it has better things to do.

Into the hot box they go. I'll let them bake a few days, or at least until it's time to use the hot box to glue up a glassy. The main bow could probably go for alot of drying, but I'm also interested in seeing how long this will take. Once they come out of the hot box I'll set up a jig to temper the bows over the hot plate while still clamped to the forms. I'll be tempering before tillering, which hopefully doesn't give me too many headaches. Lately I haven't been tempering until after the bow is tillered out. We'll see how it goes I guess.

Offline Kegan

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 08:01:43 pm »
I had to steam the bow on my chopping blcok beside the bench because I was doing the riser for my good friend Art's glass bow. Never the less, I got it steamed, the whole thing (first time I'd tried that) and clamped to the form. I dunno if the bow was just small enough or still green, but it took the bend with no real issues. I was very pleased.

Now... we wait...

Any and all comments or tips appreciated by the way :).

Offline hammertime

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 08:14:08 pm »
kegan -thanks for posting this -I had in mind to try one I like how the wood took to the form hope it turns out a shooter-Hammertime

Offline n2huntn

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 06:38:44 am »
 Great timing. I have been picking Judsons brain on this style and have a plan on paper.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.
Jeff
Genesis 27: 3

Offline Shoeman

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 08:24:58 am »
Nice work and great website too.   Question for ya.  Why  "penobscot"?    Just curious, having grown up in the land of the Penobscots here in Maine.   

Offline gstoneberg

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 09:20:36 am »
Great, I've wanted to see one of these in progress.  So glad you're posting it.

George
St Paul, TX

Offline uwe

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 09:45:17 am »
Still a dream, to make one. I`m not sure how to make the correct drawweght for example. I have made some attempts, but stopped with this idea.

Offline Klandaght

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 11:38:59 am »
Time escapes me, but years ago Marc made one that was BOM.  His craftsmanship was superb, however if I remember right, he said that the performance was mediocre from what he expected.  I would ask him any questions you might have about figuring draw weight, etc.  He's been there and done that making one. 
A man learns more from his mistakes than from his successes!

His wife will always acknowledge his learnedness!

Offline Kegan

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 07:16:23 pm »
Thanks guys, keeping the comments coming.

Shoeman, if you're refering to me not capitlizing Penobscot, that's only because I was on my second posting and my poor typing got the better of my manners :-X

Uwe, you can adjust the weight by adjusting the tension on the back cables. If the weight is too high, you loosen the cables, too low you tighten them up.


Offline Shoeman

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 11:41:59 am »
No no no,  just trying to figure out the penobscot connection.   Is it a style associated with the Penobscots?   I'm into regional history.    I've got a club butt flintlock project underway because that style is correct for the area of my interest in the late 1600's, for example.    If there is a local bow style I'll sure as heck study that too.

Offline Kegan

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 04:42:16 pm »
Oh! The Penobscot bow refers to a double bow used by the Penobscot natives long ago. There's a picture of the original in Jim Hamm's Encyclopedia on Native bows and gear.

Today I'll be taking the little bow out of the hot box and tempering it. After I finish this back bow I'll reflex and temper the second one, and by the time both little bows are done the main bow should be ready for tempering. Basically I've got projects planned for the week :)

Offline n2huntn

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 06:04:16 pm »
Shoeman, you may wish to google Micmac bow as well as Penobscot.
Jeff
Genesis 27: 3

Offline Shoeman

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 07:40:47 pm »
I googled the bows, and wow!  Never seen that before.  Talk about a strange path of development.   I'll have to ask some of my native American (Penobscot Nation) acquaintances if they know anything about these.  Cool stuff!

Offline Kegan

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 02:49:45 pm »
Got the first little back bow tempered today. Unfortunately we're out of 3" screws so I had to make do with my normal support block. THe bow came out alright, though several flaws on the back have me wondering. If this works out I'll be pleased, and it will show that the back bow really doesn't bend that much. Final reflex is 3". With the form free I steamed the second back bow, and it's much stronger. After tempering it should be able to add alot more weight.

Both bows are a little crooked though. I'm nt sure this will actually affect anything, but again it will just be something to watch as the project progresses.

Tomorrow the main bow and second back bow get tempered :)

Offline Kegan

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Re: Penobscot Project...
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 01:12:53 pm »
Christmas season has us pretty busy. It's a shame that I'm not able to pay as much attention to this project as I would have liked :-\.

Anyway. I finally got the main bow tempered to hold shape. Took it off the form and narrowed the limbs. Seems that the outer limbs are way stiffer than I wanted. Luckily, the weight is still rather high (50#?) at this point. I thinned the outer limbs down from 1/2" to 5/16" but it seems it might do well with a bit more thinning. The bow doesn't seem to be cooperating as well as I'd hope, and the wood seems rather brash.

Regardless, I'm going to cut nocks and proceed with setting it up as a double bow. I think I'll try having the string sit lower on the main bow's limbs, and at the nocks like the original. See if there's a difference.

I'm going to see if I can get the second main bow started. This one I think I'll leave straight for the sake of time. If I do bend it to shape, I'll most likely skip the tempering on the form.