True Selfbow Class

[Pappy]

Just a quick question,as some know TwinOaks  hosted the Traditional IBO world shoot last
year and we are planing on doing it  again in 2011.2010 was the first time I had had any dealings with the IBO and I will have to say it was a much different and better origination than
I had expected. The question is I am a selfbow guy and having a lot to do with the set up and running of this shoot I told them that one of the things that needed to be changed was the so called Primitive class,any bow as long as it was out of natural material was allowed in that class.
I have perposed a selfbow class also.What they want is for me to lay out the rules for the selfbow class,I am sure it won't satisfy everyone but would love to have you commits on how
this should work. I was thinking nothing on the back at all or maybe nothing on the back that would enhance performance,which would allow rawhide or other materials that are there for protection only.Love to hear some of your views on the subject. It is a great event and many class's for almost every king of Trd. bow and set up,it was just lacking in this area I thought.
This past year the way it was set up the selfbow folks had to shoot against boo backed re curves and altho I heard not complaints I thought if we had a true selfbow class it might draw more of my primitive friends that I relate to much better than some of the others,not that they weren't nice enough folks just didn't talk the same language as me. Tell me what you think,I appreciate it.
   Pappy

[mullet]

 Pappy;

The TBOF Shoots allow bamboo backed bows also. The one thing they did a few years ago in the Primitive Division was make everybody shoot self nock arrows or bone or horn inserts. No plastic. Personally, I don't have a problem with sinew backed bows along with rawhide. Mostly because my favorite osage bow has one layer of sinew because it lifted a splinter.

[M-P]

Howdy,     Isn't it a pain trying to come up with rules.  You just know somebody is going to quibble, or complain!  I probably won't be able to attend, but if I were, I would expect a selfbow to be just a stick and string.   I could see stretching things to allow a backing like rawhide, fabric or sinew, but would not allow laminations, cut in arrow passes, or plastic nocked arrows.  Glued on handle risers?
Ron

[Justin Snyder]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I think a selfbow class should be a selfbow. I think an easy way to figure this out would be to contact Badger and talk to him about the flight shoot class rules. If you keep the classes similar to what others are doing it will limit complaints.

[half eye]

Pappy,
     I guess ya know my thoughts on the topic....but I'm attaching a copy of the flight rules for the classes in primitive which is only 3 kinds a bows.... For what it's worth I too believe that there should be a place for monolithic, one piece, plain wood bows.
     Here's the attachment
rich

[hillbilly61]

 I too have no horse in this race. That being said,I would consider a selfbow as one that had no shelf, leather tab or otherwise. Backed or unbacked, it wouldn't mater as long as it was shot off the knuckle. Just a thought.

[Ranger B]

Pappy and I discussed this while I was home over Thanksgiving and since then I have spoken with Levy about the class. We plan to meet (I am the TN State rep. for IBO) and the board of directors has no issue with adding an additional class.  I completely understand that there is a perception about backed bows so why not put the backed longbows - even self made - in the longbow division.  Then we can have a true selfbow class.  The thing is that we need shooters in the class.  To my knowledge we only had one backed bow BBO in the selfbow class last year and he did not place.  The top three shooters were shooting osage selfbows.  I fully support a true selfbow class as we define it here but lets get some people out shooting in that class. 

[Jesse]

I hope to make it this year Pappy. Im sure whatever you come up with will be good. I would hate to see the bamboo backed bows get lumped together with the glass longbows though. 

[hillbilly61]

Where is this held? I would be intrested. The las time I shot an IBO was 6 years ago, before I quit shooting alltogether, and that was with wheels

[Lombard]

I'm thinking, that rawhide, silk, burlap, linen, and such do not really enhance performance, simply offering protection to marginal backs. My thoughts of a primitive self bow class should also be restricted to self arrows also.

[sailordad]

Pappy, imho a self bow is one made from a stave
with or without a natural backing that does not enhance performance i.e rawhide would be acceptable,sinew unacceptable
an arrow shelf is allowed either glued on or cut in
modern string materiel is acceptable
only natural materials allowed for arrows with natural fletch,no carbon or aluminum or the like,no plastic vanes etc
obviously allow for the use of modern field points

as far as shooters in the class go,i would be willing when i come down for the classic
my only problem is (other than sucking  ) i only have enough arrows for hunting purposes
i dont care for making arrows,so i only make enough to hunt with

like i said, just my humble opinion

[HoBow]

Tim- you wouldn't allow board bows?

[sailordad]

Tim- you wouldn't allow board bows?

i have nothing against board bows,heck ive made many myself and have a few more planned

but in my humble opinion, a TRUE self bow is made from a stave with one ring for the back and or a natural backing that does not add performance

and after all the title of the thread is "re: TRUE Selfbow Class"

not taking anything away from board bows,like i said i make them.heck some of my favs that i have made were board bows.and yes they can be considered
self bows if the yare made from one piece of wood.butin MY OPINION they are  NOT TRUE SELF BOWS

like i said,its just my humble opinion

[Ryano]

While I understand what your saying, (A natural material laminate is not a self bow by definition) I tend to agree with Ranger b. If you nick pick and divide this up to much you will have no one to compete in the competition. I shoot mostly self bows and some laminates and I would have no problem shooting against the guys with laminated natural material bows. I would be more inclined to make them required to use self nocks and wooden arrows in the primitive class if I were to change anything.....JMO.

[Pappy]

Thanks guys, I agree with the wood or cain arrows,not sure on the self nock,just because a lot of folks don't know how to do that and don't know where to get them,we may leave it as is for this year, Like Jesse said ,what about the backed bows,I for sure don't want them in the Glass class.Tim this is not at the Classic in May,it is the 3 day IBO Trad. world we will hold July 15/16/17.Likie Ranger said it wasn't a problem this year,maybe we should just wait and see if it becomes one. The cool part about this shoot is ,it is not like any IBO shoot you have ever been to,it's all Trad and really laid back. There is close tabs kept on score but other than that the course is about like the Classic.Nice hunting range shots. We will get this worked out,hope some of you folks can make it. Thanks for the input and keep the ideas coming.
   Pappy