58" too short for hickory?

[PaulLovesJamie]

1st bow: bear grizzly, 50#, 1971.
2nd bow: simple oak board bow, 50#, summer 2009.
3rd bow: this winters project.

I salvaged 1 good stave from a pignut hickory my 12 yr old son chopped with a hatchet because it was shading [his] chicken coop, thats what I want to use. It's been in the garage for 18 months now.

I'm in need of advice on lots of things, but for now 1 question I cant resolve:
the stave is about 82" long, very straight, very dense straight grain... except between inches 62 and 67 where the rings get closer together (see photo, sorry for the bad description).  I'm unsure whether to cut it off and make a 58-60" bow, or to just deal with it as "character" and go for 68-72".

I'll be targeting 50-55#, I like very simple, plain bows. I do not want to back this one. Is 58-60" too short for hickory?

edit: adding info based on Ryoon`s comment
draw length 29"
draw weight 50-55#
design & limb width - the stave is 5 inches wide & about 3 inches , so I can do whatever works well, I`ll probably do a flatbow since I`m relatively unskilled and I have a strong preference for a recurve-style handle with a small shelf.

[RyanY]

Well that depends on a lot of things like design, limb width, draw length, and draw weight. In short, you shouldn't have any problem making a hickory bow that short. I highly doubt it would ever break on you but it would probably take more set than a longer bow. But I don't think you even need to go that short. I'm not entirely sure but I don't think you need to be too concerned about that bit of character. Wait for someone else to chyme in. 

[aznboi3644]

It will take it.  I just finished up a hickory bow 57" n2n.  Pulls 45lbs at 26" bend through the handle pyramid type bow.  After unbracing it has .5" set and settles to some reflex after a half hour.

Just make sure the wood is really really dry.  I thought i had it dry enough but heat treating it really brought it to life.

[Hrothgar]

60" is plenty long for a bending flatbow. From your photo it looks like you could get a nearly straight 64" bow from that stave.

[George Tsoukalas]

60 in is too short for a 29 in. draw. I'd go 68 inches nock to nock for a minimum. Probably a little longer would be better... say 69 inches ntn. There's info on my site including buildalongs. Jawge

[sailordad]

im guessing since you said a "recurve style handle" that you arent gonna make this a bendy handle bow
so what kind of handle demensions are you thinking"
actualy i dont think it would matter,lots of draw to ask for from a 58"-60" bow imho
personaly ive never made a hick bow that short with a stiff handle,not saying it cant be done
however if you listen to George you cant go wrong,hes one of the best and very knowledgable

i realy dont see a problem with the belly side of that stave regardless of where that grain dip ends up on the bow
ive done a bow or two of hhb that had that,just tillered away and didnt even think of it as i scraped and worked that stave
just made a bow,not that short though 

have fun 

[JW_Halverson]

I'd forget the whole handle idea and make the bow to bend from tip to tip.  A 29" draw wouldn't overstress hickory at all, set should be reasonable if any at all, just be gentle and slow with tillering.  If you were to heat treat the belly, from what I am reading in TBB IV, you'd make a real snappy closequarters meat-maker.

[George Tsoukalas]

I don't see a need for you to cut it down to 60". Jawge

[hedgeapple]

I don't see a need for you to cut it down to 60". Jawge

Somewhat newby advice here:
If I'm veiwing the picture correctly and the wood at the bottom part of the pic is the bark side, the back, then I completely agree with George.  You could make the bow any length you want.  Remember you're only going to be using about .55 inches the wood.  The dip-a-do on the split inside wedge will not really effect you.  If you're still concerned about it you could make it 65 to 67 inches. The last 3 or inches of the tip will not be bending, anyhow.

Here's kind of the general rule I play by: from where the limbs start bending out of the handle to the tip equalls draw lenghth. So your draw length is 29" times 2 limbs (58"), plus the non-bending handle (say 7 or 8"). That would be a 65 to 66 inch bow.  Of course for us beginner' an extra couple of inches isn't a bad thing. 

Sure, as bowyers, we want zero set to give us the power stroke, but at your 29" draw two inches of set will still give you round an inch more string movement than a zero set bow at my 26" draw.

Just MHO.  I'l shut up now and let more experienced bowyers advice you. 

[Eric Garza]

60 inches could work if you do a good job tillering.  Read through this thread for inspiration:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/38759/t/short-powerful-d-bow.html

[PaulLovesJamie]

thanks for all the replies

yes, the bottom of the pic is the bark/back.

My reasoning for considering cutting it shorter is twofold: a) I'm not a craftsman. I`ll do ok and get a serviceable bow, but the dip in the grain does go all the way to the bark side and I'm concerned about my tillering ability.  b) I havent mastered canting the bow too much yet, and the limb tips on my oak bow keep getting in the way! (the whole short bows are easier in the brushétree stand issue.)

Sounds like my answer may lie largely in my handle choice...

My handle preference is based on the fact that for 35-40 years all I ever shot was my bear grizzly, and I`m not so sure I can change my grip style to heel down (if thats the right way to say it).  I did try an old osage longbow one afternoon at the practice range (aka back yard), I didnt like the feel of the handle, and didnt shoot well at all.

So if I can get used to a traditional handle, then it sounds like a bend-thru-the handle shorter bow is at least a serviceable option.
But if I want to mimic my recurve handle, I'm probably better off at 68-72 inches.
Sound about right?

So would switching to heel down really be that hard?

[PaulLovesJamie]

Oh - also, I am not one to fiddle with arrows/spine, it drives me nuts. So I prefer a forgiving setup, ie I cheat. I tend to use extremely extreme FOC and actually filed my bear to be a little more center shot... so there's actually another issue, if I go with a more traditional handle I either need to figure out how to get it a bit more center shot, or get this old dog to learn to deal with arrows.

[George Tsoukalas]

I've shot and made bows of every conceivable handle type. I just got used to them. You'll never learn tillering if I'll you tiller is perfectly straight homogenous wood. If you do go with a 60 in bow at least let the handle bend as was suggested above. jawge

[Parnell]

 Whatever you decide on, HEAT TREAT the bow!  Hickory loves to be toasted.  I've found it to make a huge difference.  When using hickory I usually heat it heavily after floor tiller, into some reflex, mid tiller, again with some reflex.  I used to heat it again at the end of the tiller, but don't know if I'm convinced of that anymore.  If it's humid at all, I'd give it the heat.  It'll pay off.

[JW_Halverson]

Spine matching the arrows to the bow is really not that hard to do.  With your 29" draw, just order shafts a little stiffer than the final draw weight of the bow and shoot them bare shafted and shorten them until you have them coming off the bow perfectly straight. 

I did that with half a dozen ash shafts I had sitting around the house from some other project.  I couldn't remember what spine they were, so I put points on and shot them from my every-day bow, 26" draw, 50#.  They were perfect at the full 31 1/2 inch length.  I got lucky.  Just need to add some low fletching to impart spin.

Here's the odd thing....with the bare shafts I discovered the arrows were "jumping" nock high.  I changed the position of my hand and now they are like darts!  Booyah, 545 grain death dealing deer stingers!