Author Topic: why copper (Read 7937 times)

Michael C. · « **on:** November 03, 2010, 08:21:20 pm »

Maybe this is a silly question but why do you use copper instead of some other metal to make knapping tools? I've noticed that some people use horseshoe nails but I didn't know if there is some property of copper that is preferable.

HoBow · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2010, 08:24:27 pm »

Copper is just soft enough to give a little but not as soft as something like lead....a harder metal like steal would crush the rock....I'm not much of a knapper, but being somewhat familiar with metals, I would assume this is it

sailordad · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2010, 08:26:10 pm »

copper is a softer metal,its maliable(sp)
in other words the material has give to it
it will grab the rock and pull the flake off and not just crush it.
other metals like steel/iron dont work well for percussion becuase they are hard metals
they dont have the give thats needed to grab the rock

as far as horseshoe nails go,they are a harder metal
but they can be used for fine flaking and notching
i use one(or ued to)for edge work and notches
now i am into using moose bittles for percussion and deer antler tines for pressure flaking and notching

Michael C. · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2010, 10:55:58 pm »

Thanks that makes sense. I just didn't know for sure because I watched a video where I guy spun copper wire with a drill to make it harder, which I would think defeats the purpose your talking about. I am trying to put together a kit and didn't know what the difference was.

sailordad · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2010, 11:13:49 pm »

the purpose of twisting the copper wire is to harden it
the wire that he is using is fine as it is,but wears a little quiker
you can twist it,pound it
it makes it not fold over as easy during use

even this so called hardened copper is softer than other metals
its even softer than brass i believe

ive been wondering how pewter would work
im just not up to take one of my dragon statues and finding out

but i have learned to like antler more than anything for knapping

Wolf Watcher · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2010, 10:49:56 am »

MY Opinion: Both the procussion and pressure flaking techniques require that some of the force of the blow or pressure be absorbed by the billet (stone, horn, etc) or horn flaker, copper, bone, while the remainder of the force is imparted into the material and hopefully at the desired angle. Copper has been around in some areas for thousands of years, just not in the refined and shapes we now have. The copper you can buy at the hardware store is soft drawn and although it will grab on to the abraded area of your material it will bend and deform and is often not tough enough to force the desired flake off. Since iron, steel, brass are hard they tend to crush rather than flake as there is no real amount of force returned to them when a flake attempt is tried. Horse shoe nails are used primarily for notching and edge finishing where you are only attempting small prescribed flakes. Cross country power lines use hard drawn copper wire as well as deep well drillers often use it for down the hole current! You can change the hardness of soft drawn copper by twisting, stretching as with copper tubing, or pounding the ends on a hard surface. The copper wire used in the old days on power poles for ground wire is often hard drawn and is an excellent source of good useable copper. In the 50s I used lots of antler, horn, fire harden wood and stone and all were readily available on the ranch where I lived. Now that I am old and have lost a lot of wrist strength, I have gone to copper ended Ishi sticks for the advantage they provide. Any way you can carve out a useable blade be it a small projectile or a big skinner is very satisfying and I hope you find this knapping journey one of obsession and pleasure. A/Ho Pokie

BearG · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2010, 11:42:15 am »

I was going to ask about brass. Some truck rear ends have 4 large brass pins in them. We use them as drives because they won't mar other metals. I was wondering if some of my knapping friends could use them or not. I have a couple already saved but if there not useable for knapping I wont save them. Heavy little suckers.

cracker · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2010, 12:12:25 pm »

Hey Bear I thought I was the only one who rooted around in truck rearends I got probably a hundred of those brass pins about 1.5 in diameter and 4.00 long. Ron

Pappy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2010, 12:16:56 pm »

Save them anyway Bear,We can use them in our knife work,butt plates and such. I use to have a bunch of them back in the day and also used them as drifts.

Pappy

Pappy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2010, 12:21:35 pm »

I use to buld them for a living 40 or so years ago.

Pappy

mullet · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2010, 08:00:19 pm »

I was going to try pounding some brass flat and grind them into broadheads. Didn't the Egyptions and Romans use brass points and blades?

JustinNC · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2010, 08:19:45 pm »

Quote from: mullet on November 04, 2010, 08:00:19 pm

I was going to try pounding some brass flat and grind them into broadheads. Didn't the Egyptions and Romans use brass points and blades?

What an insult....man has coral and wants to pound brass for broadheads

lol

I'm not sure if they used straight copper, but Id imagine it was used somewhere along the lines when it was discovered.

Michael C. · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:39:57 pm »

Great info and thanks for all the answers Jeff, Sailordad, and Wolf. This is why I like coming here when people know they have solid knowledge to pass on and if people aren't sure you get some good guesses that are worth a try.

I made a few things to start off with to see what I like

- copper boppers 1", 3/4", 1/2" and one thats about 1 1/2" out of a moose horn
- pressure flaker and ishi stick from 8 gauge copper wire
- leather pad and an old road bike tire I cut up and glued together to make a rubber one about 1" thick
- old rough sharpening stone to abrade with (not sure how this will work)

There's a start also have some obsidian I've had stashed in my garage and what I think is Pedernales not heat treated and some heat treated Pedernales on the way. I hope I'm no good at it cause I really don't need to have another addiction, but I keep seeing such nice work on here I have to try it.

sailordad · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2010, 07:55:30 pm »

michael, your probably gonna find out that the moose billet will work better on the obsidion
the copper will work too
i just find that antler works better on the softer material i.e. obsidion,dacite,novaculite and such
how heavy is your moose billet?
weight is the key factor with these,not so much the size(thats what i was told when i bought mine)

my moose billets and whitetail tines are about all i use now
unless im hitting real hard stuff
not sure how much quiker the antler will wear on the harder stuff
not upto finding out either,i paid good money for my moose billets so i am not destroying them on the hard stuff
besides i have several differant copper boppers and paddles that realy beat the snot out of the hard stuff

have fun

Michael C. · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2010, 01:53:07 pm »

Thanks for the advice I will have to have one of the ladies in the mail room weigh it for me. I found one of the guys that goes to the cornstalk shoots has been knapping for about 15 years. He said he would be more than happy to give me advice, take me with him sometime to look for rock and help me with cooking any rock I might find on my own. I'll post some pics once I get to chipping, probably tonight sometime we are about to go on a hike with the kids.

Primitive Archer