Hypothesis: Reason western Native American bows are so short

[bubby]

I live in n. calif. and with the heavy brush and timber, as well as stalking or hunting from ground blinds, a short bow was the most practical choice. I also seem to remember that Ishi said the length of the bow is the distance from you're hip to fingertips of an outstretched arm. Going from memory on that, correct me if I'm wrong, Bub

[Traxx]

Bub,
You are correct,but it was from the hip on the opposite side of the outstretched arm.In Ishis case,it came to a 50" bow.

[loefflerchuck]

 I like Traxx point. Hunting back then was different. They didn't wake up in a hotel, coat themselves with elk urine and take 8 hours to try to take game. They were in fact one of the most efficient killers in the animal world. Spending there lives perfecting it. So hunting from blinds or approaching game with a stuffed deer head, they never needed to take a shot more than 15 yards.

[bubby]

thank's Traxx, that is how I remember it, now, Bub

[denny]

I studied Indian affairs for years and am still learning .  Unfortunately as you get old like me , you wonder what they said'lol .That being said there is a slide show of and good Huron Indian shooting one of my bows, On my web page jerbowden.net. I think alot has been said is true, However I am surprised none have mentioned they didn't use three fingers to shoot with, this method was adopted from the European style of shooting later. If you ever pinch knock a arrow you readily realize you can't pull much back ( arrow length ,That is ), So a longbow would be unnecessary. And The eastern tribes where of short stature so this is an issue also. My son and I built a exact replica of Ishi"s bow. Dimensions was no problem, but wood was an issue as  his bows were of pacific yew. And we only had osage and white woods here in Pennsylvania.Horse back riding would make a short bow better. But Horses were introduced by the Spaniards and so was gun powder at that time. So The Indians only used bows till they found them guns shot farther.lol The Cherokee come to mind and some other plains Indians. I like the bison backed recurves and the sinewed back little recurves i have shot. The bows are fast and hard to hold a group. The arrows are the length of a kids arrows. 26 inch being the longest, I have shot from this style of bow. Anyway , This is just my oppion based on my experiences. Denny

[sailordad]

If I am remembering correctly, Ishi liked to make his bows from Mountain Juniper if he had the option. Interestingly, he said that yew was for women's bows.

this is what i was told by the curator of the POPE AND YOUNG ARCHERY MUSEUM here in minnesota

[Traxx]

Yes Ishis prefered wood,in his native state,was Juniper.As to Yew wood,being a wood for a womans bow,I dont know,where that came from.I seroiusly doubt that Ishi would have said that,due to Cultural reasons.Women did not make or use bows.In fact,they were not even supposed to touch a bow.It was considered a contamination if they did.Ishi said he knew of other people useing Yew for bow wood,but that he did not.He knew the leaves were poisonous to eat though.

[denny]

If I recall Juniper is a type of yew tree and of the same family. Anyway this is the tree i meant to refer too. Sorry misleading. Denny

[Traxx]

I dont Believe that Ishi would even "Condecend" to use Yew wood,as it didnt grow in the country,he was confined to for most of his life.I guess he could have possibly traded for it,but i doubt that as well.The NDN trade routes,had been pretty much abolished for most of Ishis life,as most nations had been exiled to Reservations and Rancherias.A person needs to be carefull,about what they read,nowdays concerning Historical events.Much Misinformation gets dealt out and passed on as fact,through the years,especially concerning Ishi.I read a few of em in that article alone.But....Maybe im just a little to anal about gettin all the little details correct,when it comes to historical subjects.LOL

[Traxx]

At the expense of comming off as arguementative,the article was Supposedly written by Mr Compton,of who i have the utmost respect,but,respectfully,many of those details were facts,that Compton could not have known firsthand.They were secondhand info passed on to compton by Kroeber and Pope.I have read everything availiable by Pope on the Subject of Ishi and have found severall contradictions and discrepancies in his writeings concerning Ishi.And,Dont even get me started on T Kroeber.LOL
Just to assure you,that im not just some Yahoo,trying to argue with you,Ill give you a brief rundown of my background and history concerning Ishi.My Grandfather,never did buy into Kroebers account of the Ishi Story.He did tireless research of his own,to satisfy his curiousity.In his research,he actually Talked with people who had actuall firsthand contact and knowledge of and with Ishi.His conclusions came out many times, vastly different than those,of accepted versions of the Story.Many people who have researched the Ishi saga,in recent years have interviewed and recorded many of my grandfathers findings.He probably knew the country of Ishi as good as any man,as he was the Range conservationist,of the Lassen district of the USFS,for many years.He instilled the Infatuation of Ishi in me and i took his research further yet,as i grew up around and am even somewhat related to severall Native people in Ishis Area.Some of which are related to Ishi,and have their own versions and accounts of Ishis story.But,thats enough of that for now.

[Story Teller]

I'm glad that this thread has generated so much on-line discussion and I'm certainly getting a great deal of insight, so I thank everyone.  I'm afraid that we may have ventured into a tangent on Ishi.  Perhaps if we do not already have a thread about Ishi on the forum, we should start one, but I don't want to lose the thread we started with an off-subject debate.

Does anyone else have any experience building arid-region arrows or shooting western-style short bows?  We received some good observations from loefflerchuck and bubby on that subject.

Thanks,
Story Teller

[bubby]

Actually, in the book that I read, Ishi said any old wood makes a bow, arrows are what does the killing, or something to that effect. Bub

[Deo]

I live in the southern most extent of the redwood forest in California, Ohlone country. Good long straight bow wood is not as easy to find as the east coast. I live in a semi arid environment, we only get about 30 in a rain a year up in the redwood forest about 40-60 in. Long arrow shaft material is not hard to find here. In Most of northern California it is not hard to find long arrow shaft material, but is difficult to find long stave material. Most of the California people did hunt from blinds so that could account for the short bows, the arrows were much longer for stability and accuracy reasons. The Ottawa and other midwestern tribes used short bows i believe because they liked to hunt from canoe and occasionally fought from canoe. The cherokee and other southeastern tribes had two different bows one short bow about 5 ft at 45 to 55 lbs pull more or less for hunting, and a war bow about 6ft at 70 or more lbs of pull, reference Al Herrin cherokee bowyer. A choctaw chief named Pushmataha brought a 6 ft hickory bow into battle in the war of 1812, encyclopedia of NA 1st ed. The east coast people were much more into warfare then the california people. They found a bow in the plains of texas predating the horse that was 75 in long TBB Vol 3, " a monster bow".
 You also have to remember that the forest when the Natives were taking care of the land was much more park like and open than now. They used fire to clean and manage the land, not so srcubby and choked out, easier to get around. The east coast people were a little taller then the western people as well and taller than the Europeans, not always disease famine and warfare have a way with shrinking people. I  think dry arid places can take shorter bows, while more humid warm places need longer bows like in south America, is another possibility.