problem knot- longbow

[aaron]

I'm working on a yew stave that will be longbow-ish, but i'm not dead set on historical accuracy- just want it longer and narrower than my other bows for variety. The stave is 69 inches long, 1 1/4 wide at the handle. The sapwood is about 3/8 . it has about 40-50 rings per inch.
my problem is near the handle- a knot goes diagonally through it, and the part that comes out the side is punky. this is about 3 inches from the center of the bow.  I am thinking that I'll need to leave this area just as it is (rather than rounding it or tillering it to bend) because:
1.if i round the cross section  the knot will be at or very close to the surface- compression failure.
2. if i tiller it to bend, i will either go deep enough to expose the punky section or the position of the knot on the belly will be closer to the edge- compression failure
3. if I narrow it,the knot may also end up on the edge...
therefore i have to leave a thick square section in the handle of the bow, right? that would give me a stiff handle but I'd prefer a traditionally tillered longbow.
so, what would you do ? I am shooting for about 60 lbs at 26.

any and all opinions appreciated.

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[aaron]

the penciled in numbers are thickness, the knot in question is in the center of the photo.

[Del the cat]

If the knot is good sound solid wood, just leave it, otherwise drill it out, ream back to sound wood and glue in a plug.
A slightly stiff handle on a longbow is OK.
A knot going through the centre of the limb will be ok, just leave a tiny bit of eatra wood round it, Yew is very forgiving.
Look at the pics on my website, I deliberately made a 'bad' Yew bow with a horrible knot in the centre of one limb with no extra left round it and it was fine, also my fave' longbow has a huge knot in the handle.
(Click on the globe symbol under my username) The 'Yew Longbows' and 'Other Yew Bows' pages will be of interest.
Cross  section of longbows from the Mary Rose varied from almost circular to almost square, I like a rounded belly and a flatter back following the surface of the underbark or a growth ring.
If you want it to look like a longbow don't shorten the stave at all, 69" is a nice length, I see too many people with longbows taller than themselves, and conversely some people think an ELB can be 60"
Del

[adb]

In my experience with yew, just ignore the knots mostly. Leave them a bit proud if you can, especially on the back. If the knot is rotten, you can either shoot it full of super glue, mix some yew saw dust with wood glue and work it in the knot, or make a Dutch plug.

[aaron]

ok guys thanks i guess you're saying that it's not a problem if i tiller it down and the knot ends up closer to the edge or making a larger proportion of the limb as long as the knot is solid wood. The dutchman (plug) is an idea i have considered- what are the risks? i have done bows with knots in the center, running perpendicular to the limb, but this one worries me because it would be closer to the edge and at an angle.
del- i checked out your page- cool! I liked the yew bow with all the problems- I have worked some Vine maple staves like that. Can you provide more details or a pic of the tillering string shortener?

[George Tsoukalas]

I would consider tillering that knotted area to be just a little stiffer than the rest of the limb. Just a little. So that know is not taking a full load of bending. Jawge

[bowmo]

Man, you shoulda gone around that thing. But yea, I would just keep truckin' at this point.

dan

[Del the cat]

ok guys thanks i guess you're saying that it's not a problem if i tiller it down and the knot ends up closer to the edge or making a larger proportion of the limb as long as the knot is solid wood. The dutchman (plug) is an idea i have considered- what are the risks? i have done bows with knots in the center, running perpendicular to the limb, but this one worries me because it would be closer to the edge and at an angle.
del- i checked out your page- cool! I liked the yew bow with all the problems- I have worked some Vine maple staves like that. Can you provide more details or a pic of the tillering string shortener?

There were some string shortener pics got posted in this thread http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,21453.msg293009.html#msg293009
Last week.
Del

[aaron]

Josh, here's that longbow i was talkin' about.
these pics show the same knot referred to earlier. i ended up removing the knot diagonally thru the edge- leaving a small "bite " out of the edge.- tried to tiller the handle slightly stiff..
No finish or handle on this one yet- i'm trying to decide if i am up to the draw weight of about 65lbs
the bow has a bit of built-in deflex ( 1 3/4 ) so i am wondering if i should do a little heat-treat and/or recurve tips slightly
also wondering if the tips should be lighter
advice welcome

[Elktracker]

Josh, here's that longbow i was talkin' about.
these pics show the same knot referred to earlier. i ended up removing the knot diagonally thru the edge- leaving a small "bite " out of the edge.- tried to tiller the handle slightly stiff..
No finish or handle on this one yet- i'm trying to decide if i am up to the draw weight of about 65lbs
the bow has a bit of built-in deflex ( 1 3/4 ) so i am wondering if i should do a little heat-treat and/or recurve tips slightly
also wondering if the tips should be lighter
advice welcome

65# is a bit heavy for my taste if I am planning on shooting a bow quite a bit, but I am a weakling and I have problems with accuracy when pulling to much weight. I would probably try to get some reflex into the limbs or tips and I would also narrow the tips some if it were mine. But I have been takeing all my tips down to about a half inch side to side and it seems to work well, I have even been told to take them to 3/8 but havent tried it yet. I think it looks like its coming allong nice hope to see some more pics when its finished and a full draw. Here are some pics of the tips of a yew takedown im working on pretty much 7/16 all the way around sap wood is about 3/16. I will probably only shoot for around 45 pounds on this one though.

[Elktracker]

aaron I forgot to ask how do you string that style of knock? leg through? I forgot how you did it when you were down at my place and I want to try that style knock. thanks