Wood burning on the belly

[n2huntn]

How many shots does it take to call it a survivor? I give mine around 500 before I call it a bow and even bother with a finish.
 Marc, how long do you expect a bow to hold up for a customer if properly cared for and shot regular? I live in a high humidity area if that makes a difference.
Thanks
N2

[Marc St Louis]

I replace a bow inside of a year if it breaks

[adb]

I have several hickory backed osage bows that must be close to 10 years old, with thosands of arrows through them. As far as I'm concerned, a well  made all wood bow won't last a lifetime, but darn close. None of my bows (close to this age) have needed retillering, or have lost any significant draw weight.
A 30% failure rate would be unacceptable to me. I've broken many bows in the tillerng process (and more than a few lately, as I struggle to make another 100+# warbow), but after a bow is finished and ready to deliver, my failure rate has been 1 broken bow in the last 5 years, and that was due to a friend overdrawing a customers bow. I also offer a 1 year guarantee on the bows I sell, on a graduated scale.

[half eye]

If all of ya remember this whole entire carving thing started as a "what-if" experiment. That experiment is ongoing, I'm learning, tweeking and generally having fun with it. I'm not ready to give up on it, and I'm not ready to call it a success quite yet either. Learn something new every day.

I dont sell bows, It's not my living. I do try to share the journey along the way as a hobby thats fun. If I can inspire somebody smarter than me to go on and accomplish something because he wasn't afraid to experiment or try something new; that would be great. But I believe it's a bit ingenuous to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of any ongoing experiment. Wait till the results are in, then get as froggy as ya like.

 Trying something new or different doesn't mean that you don't like the old ways, all it means is that ya wonder "what-if"..............if a guy with an atlatl hadn't wondered, what-if, then ya might not have the bow.
rich

[adb]

Giving this more thought, it's always been taught (to me when I started) and I will continue to teach, the accepted standard of keeping the back of a bow "clean", especially board bows. Any deformity will create a weak spot for potential failure. When I'm cutting backing strips for backed board bows, I look for the cleanest possible material, with no knots, swirls, or grain run off.
Actually, when handing over a finished bow to a customer, and especialy with board selfbows, I always tell them to be very careful not to damage the bow, especially the back. Any ding or dent will create a weak spot. So, that being said, I just can't support actually carving into a bow's back. Seems scary to me... just asking for trouble. It looks nice, but not safe. I've (well, actually my artist wife) drawn on the back of plenty of bows, especially those backed with rawhide, with no issues. Some customers want their name or logo carved into the bow, and I always decline. I'd rather not make the bow period, than risk the failure. JMHO.

[adb]

If all of ya remember this whole entire carving thing started as a "what-if" experiment. That experiment is ongoing, I'm learning, tweeking and generally having fun with it. I'm not ready to give up on it, and I'm not ready to call it a success quite yet either. Learn something new every day.

I dont sell bows, It's not my living. I do try to share the journey along the way as a hobby thats fun. If I can inspire somebody smarter than me to go on and accomplish something because he wasn't afraid to experiment or try something new; that would be great. But I believe it's a bit ingenuous to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of any ongoing experiment. Wait till the results are in, then get as froggy as ya like.

 Trying something new or different doesn't mean that you don't like the old ways, all it means is that ya wonder "what-if"..............if a guy with an atlatl hadn't wondered, what-if, then ya might not have the bow.
rich

Rich,
This isn't a personal attack. so please don't take it as such. I believe there are some accepted and true guidelines of wood bow making, and one of them is to not damage the back of a bow, otherwise it may lead to failure.

[Marc St Louis]

If all of ya remember this whole entire carving thing started as a "what-if" experiment. That experiment is ongoing, I'm learning, tweeking and generally having fun with it. I'm not ready to give up on it, and I'm not ready to call it a success quite yet either. Learn something new every day.

I dont sell bows, It's not my living. I do try to share the journey along the way as a hobby thats fun. If I can inspire somebody smarter than me to go on and accomplish something because he wasn't afraid to experiment or try something new; that would be great. But I believe it's a bit ingenuous to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of any ongoing experiment. Wait till the results are in, then get as froggy as ya like.

 Trying something new or different doesn't mean that you don't like the old ways, all it means is that ya wonder "what-if"..............if a guy with an atlatl hadn't wondered, what-if, then ya might not have the bow.
rich

Nothing wrong with an inquisitive mind, I have one myself.

[sailordad]

"The only other thing about the carving that I have noticed is ya need to keep the background pretty even in depth. If you get carried away in depth in a small area it's like making a hinge or something similiar and you will create a weak point where the force can accumulate. Actually the complicated patterns (little background cut out) work better (bow wise) than small patterns with a lot of background cut out area. These take a little longer but work out better.
rich"

Rich, i think your right on this.
after reading that post, i went back and looked at the bow.
the break didnt happen right where the carving started.it happened right where the outline of the turky head is.
as a matter of fact it followed the outline of the head almost perfectly.
this outline was carved into the bow creating a low spot as compared to the rest of the carving above it.

[ken75]

nice to see this has turned civil ! as far as carving goes i think it has been one of the most influential and controversial topics lately ,i dont do it because i dont think stick figures and smiley faces would pass as art and thats about as artistic as i can get .however it is great to see people pushing the boundaries and trying new things and theres nothing wrong with that if your not selling the experiments . a free bow that breaks is still a free bow ! i've worked on several different designs that veer from the norm like my split limb hickory with a half inch gap through the working limb that i didnt post about because i was positive the response would take away from my pleasure of building it. having said all this whats important to me is building bows, looking at bows on here, and making nice comments on bows that wether or not i would build or agree with the design there still nice bows. to each his own !! as far as stats of successful bows goes none of you would believe the amount i have broken .. granted not many lately but the first two years i didnt have one success and i probably built 20 .that with the five this year and the 37 successful ones makes for real crappy odds. enough rambling this is more than ive talked on here all year

[sailordad]

"a free bow that breaks is still a free bow !" quote ken75

ken you are absolutely right,but who ever said they were free bows? 
not to mention the inherent danger of said bow going ka blewie in the hands of someone else.
if that person gets hurt is there going to be a liability issue?
remember where most of live (the U.S.A.) is a very litigating society.
heck we have people sue for spilling hot coffee on themselves after they knowingly bought said "hot coffee",and they win the law suit.

and as far as it "turning civil" as you so put it,i never seen it going any other way.
its all in the way interpet someones post