Rawhide installation advice

[Stingray45]

I was wondering if anyone could direct me to some instructions or give me a quick overview on the best way to install rawhide backing strips?
I just got a set on the auction site for a pretty good price so I will be looking to install them soon and wasn't sure the best way to go about it? Do you have to soak them in glue? I didnt think I would apply them like linen because I usually smother the back with glue, put the backing on and then get out all the wrinkles and air bubbles out then put some more on top and then smooth it out.

Also am I alright going with TB II or would TB hideglue or any other hideglue be better? Thanks in advance everyone.

[adb]

I use rawhide a fair bit as a backing, mostly on whitewood boards. Just recently, I've changed (for the better) the way I apply it. I used to glue it on after cutting the bow's profile, but not anymore. Here's what I do now:

I soak the rawhide in cool water until it's completely soft and saturated. Let it soak until it's all the same thickness. Some parts are a bit thicker, and may take longer to soften. This is usually done in about an hour. I take the rawhide out of the water, and lay it on a big towel to dry. I use TB3 to apply it... it's waterproof, cheap, and cleans up with water. Apply glue to both surfaces... rawhide and wood. If you let the rawhide sit for a bit, it's less saturated, and the glue doesn't become so thin and messy. Remember to apply glue to the flesh side of the rawhide.
What I do differently now, is sandwich the rawhide between two layers of board... the one I'm gluing it to, and the other as a compression and clamping layer. I'll make the wood I want to back the same width as the rawhide strip, usually 2", and the clamping board the same. I put a layer of wax paper between the rawhide and the clamping board, so it doesn't stick to it. I wrap the entire thing with bicycle inner tubes, leaving a good inch space between wraps. Don't wrap it too tight... I use about half the pressure I'd use than when gluing wood backings. I let it sit for a minimum of 24hrs. After, I'll draw the bow's profile with pencil on the rawhide backing, and cut it out from there. I've found this method results in less edge lifting of the rawhide. Once the bow is cut out, I round the edge off with sandpaper, and start to tiller the belly. Keeping in mind, this is for a board bow... a stave bow is a whole other thing. 

[Stingray45]

Thanks for the advice adb, I appreciate the help. I will let you know how it goes once I get the rawhide. Now do you rough up the back of the bow that you are attaching the rawhide to? Also you said you let the rawhide dry a bit before adding glue so it doesnt get messy? About how long do you let it dry on the towel before trying to apply it? Thanks.

[Mark Anderson]

I've only backed two bows with rawhide but it really was simple. I'll tell you how I did it. Make sure the hide is as flat as possible with no wrinkles. then I laid the bow back down on it and marked the shape of each limb. Cut it out leaving it just s bit wide (I left it 1/8" on each side). I sanded a skiv joint where the pieces met in the middle while it was dry then soaked it in some warmish water (takes about a half hour depending on thickness). Speaking of thickness 1/16" is about right. then when it was very pliable I took it out of the water and wiped the excess off. Clamped the bow in my vise and used TBIII on the limb. I dip my fingers in the water to spread the glue around. It keeps it thinner and gives you more working time. then I laid the rawhide on the limb and started wrapping with split bike inner tubes. As you wrap you will find the hide wanting to pull to the side you are wrapping so make sure you keep it pulled back in place. I wrap it the entire length and let it set for about 18-20 hours then I unwrap it and let it dry completely. When it's dry I start again on the other limb. It pretty easy but make sure you have everything ready before you start. I once got halfway through a limb and realized I didn't have enough rubber inner tube to finish and made a mad dash to the shelf to get one split and ready to go. Luckily with the added water in the glue it didn't set up as fast as it could have.
Just the way I do it, but there are guys on here that have been doing it years longer than I have and they might have a better way!
Mark
p.s. this is for stave bows haven't built a board bow yet.

[adb]

I don't rough the back of the bow, or the rawhide. No need with TB3. I run the board through my thickness sander with 80 grit on the drum.

Just make sure you can tell which side is the flesh side of the rawhide. I let the rawhide sit for maybe 10-15 minutes before I start gluing. It should be done dripping, and not be so wet. The only reason you need to wet the rawhide in the first place is, so it's pliable and easier to work with. You can also stretch it a wee bit (starting at grip, and pulling to tip), so the backing does a bit more work under tension. I make a simple vee splice in the bow's center to join the rawhides together, and then your grip will cover it anyway. I used to overlap it, but I don't like the big bump it leaves.

[adb]

I've only backed two bows with rawhide but it really was simple. I'll tell you how I did it. Make sure the hide is as flat as possible with no wrinkles. then I laid the bow back down on it and marked the shape of each limb. Cut it out leaving it just s bit wide (I left it 1/8" on each side). I sanded a skiv joint where the pieces met in the middle while it was dry then soaked it in some warmish water (takes about a half hour depending on thickness). Speaking of thickness 1/16" is about right. then when it was very pliable I took it out of the water and wiped the excess off. Clamped the bow in my vise and used TBIII on the limb. I dip my fingers in the water to spread the glue around. It keeps it thinner and gives you more working time. then I laid the rawhide on the limb and started wrapping with split bike inner tubes. As you wrap you will find the hide wanting to pull to the side you are wrapping so make sure you keep it pulled back in place. I wrap it the entire length and let it set for about 18-20 hours then I unwrap it and let it dry completely. When it's dry I start again on the other limb. It pretty easy but make sure you have everything ready before you start. I once got halfway through a limb and realized I didn't have enough rubber inner tube to finish and made a mad dash to the shelf to get one split and ready to go. Luckily with the added water in the glue it didn't set up as fast as it could have.
Just the way I do it, but there are guys on here that have been doing it years longer than I have and they might have a better way!
Mark

I used to do it the same way, and had the same issues... with the rawhide moving around, etc. Not anymore. Rawhide first, profile second.

[adb]

Also, I used to wrap the rawhide with Ace bandages in the past, but I don't do that anymore either. It left a rough bumpy texture I don't like, and the thickness of the rawhide was very inconsistant. Squeezing it gently between smooth hard surfaces leaves it an even thickness, with a nice smooth surface. I just sand it lightly with a 220 grit, and apply finish at the end.

I used to avoid rawhide in the past, cuz it was such a pain in the arse to apply. Not anymore. This new method (for me), is easy. I like rawhide as a backing... it's strong, light, and very tough... protecting the bow's back, and adding a very good tension strong backing. I think rawhide is able to stretch up to 5% before failure, where as wood can stretch about 1%.

Oh, yah... I use nothing but deer rawhide. It seems to be just the right thickness.

[bubby]

I used to use tite bond but switched to knox gelatin,easyer to work with and really sucks rawhide or skins down tight, gives time to adjust and any bubbles are easy to fix. and it's cheap

[aaron]

i do it similar to adb, but with some changes:
i "degrease" , the bow . that is wash it with soap or lye then rinse well to clean it (then let dry)
i "size" the bow ( thin coat of glue (tbIII) which is let to dry a while- this prevents the wood from soaking up too much glue leaving not enough in the glueline for a good bond)
i lap it down onto the sides, not just the back (about 1/8 inch)
this is with round- backed vine maple, so i wrap with gauze or ace bandage. i get the wrapping marks, which i don't like. i am thinking that since tbIII is waterproof- you could resoak the rawhide after the glue dried and it will pllump up (??) , erasing the marks- anyone ever tried this?

[adb]

I generally just sand the rawhide until it's smooth. It takes much extra work doing this, after wrapping with gauze of Ace bandages, which is why I don't do it anymore.

[ken75]

adb your method sounds easy and im going to try it ,just curious if by doing it that way leaves the board with a sharp edge ,i know the rawhide is sanded but the board will be at a 90 wont it

[JW_Halverson]

I use the Ace bandage trick, but hate the impressions it leaves on the rawhide.  I started taking the bandages off earlier, when the rawhide was still pretty damp, like after an hour or so.  Then I wipe the rawhide down with a sopping wet sponge to re-wet it and swell it back up.  By that time the Titebond has already set up and the rawhide is still workable.  Several wettings lifts the imprint off the rawhide. 

I also start in the middle of the handle and pull/stretch the rawhide as I get further out to the tips, making sure to squeeze out all air bubbles andglue pockets.

[adb]

adb your method sounds easy and im going to try it ,just curious if by doing it that way leaves the board with a sharp edge ,i know the rawhide is sanded but the board will be at a 90 wont it

When the rawhide is fully dry, it's as hard as wood. I just work it the same way, rounding off the edge of the board to a smooth radius. This way, I've had no issues with the rawhide lifting off the edge.

[okiecountryboy]

i do it similar to adb, but with some changes:
i "degrease" , the bow . that is wash it with soap or lye then rinse well to clean it (then let dry)
i "size" the bow ( thin coat of glue (tbIII) which is let to dry a while- this prevents the wood from soaking up too much glue leaving not enough in the glueline for a good bond)
i lap it down onto the sides, not just the back (about 1/8 inch)
this is with round- backed vine maple, so i wrap with gauze or ace bandage. i get the wrapping marks, which i don't like. i am thinking that since tbIII is waterproof- you could resoak the rawhide after the glue dried and it will pllump up (??) , erasing the marks- anyone ever tried this?

Wonderin when someone was goin to mention sizing...

Ron

[ken75]

thanks adb