Author Topic: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...  (Read 5556 times)

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Offline brian_restivo

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tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« on: August 25, 2010, 02:13:54 am »
Anyone had a tip overlay come off?? I just had my second one come off while breaking in one for this season. Ya...  I know I'm running late but times a premium. Last year I had one come off after a hundred shots or better. Luckally I found the damn thing, drilled about an 1/8th inch into each side of the glue joint and stuck a 1/4 chunk of nail in on the reglue. A little sanding and true oil good as new. That joint was hit with acetone 2 to 3 times each side and epoxied (ace hardware 5 min). Also well grooved with hacksaw blade. I thought I sovled the problem with a stronger epoxy. That and I studed all tips from then until now with that 1/4 inch peace of nail, just in case. Until this bow. I hit into the stud on the belly side of the tip. More than a little ticked off, I took a half inch of both sides and retipped it. This time with no stud, thinking the better epoxy was the answer. Nope....     Both failures where buffalo horn on osage. Both treated the same as far as multiple dousings of acetone. Both well surfaced with hacksaw blade. Both perfectly flat joints. If done the same thing with several other buffalo horn osage tips with no problem, but at this failure rate I'm afraid to carry any of them in the field. Im at a loss.  Anyone have any Ideas. New glue??
I just checked. The new epoxy I was using is devcon 2 ton high strength rated to 2,500 lbs per inch. Surface on the tip that failed is 1/4 by about an inch. I took pictures on my phone but they where'nt very clear. The failure went though a bit of the horn. If the narrow tip is to fault, a wider tip would give a safety factor of any confidence. Again if any one has had isues like this, help a brother out. Next time I post I'll make sure its something positive. Maybe one on parabolic curves on limb layout

Brian
Does it make me a hippocrate, typing here at my computer, when I call myself a neo luddite??

Offline Badger

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 03:14:05 am »
   I would skip the step where you rough it with a hacksaw blade and just sand it to take the shine off.
I have never degreased osage except when I first started. I think the hacksaw blade may be cutting down on the surface area you are matching up. Steve

Offline brian_restivo

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 03:21:02 am »
I'll have to try that but to tell you the truth...     I'm about done with the overlays. If I can't trust them...   Good thing I'm about done with a 100% primitive material bow for this season. It will have sinew/rawhide wraped knocks.
Does it make me a hippocrate, typing here at my computer, when I call myself a neo luddite??

Offline gmc

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 07:22:39 am »
Do you have full draw photo of that bow? Just curious if you have the bend spread too far into the tips.


gmc
Central Kentucky

Offline Gordon

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 09:52:40 am »
I'm with gmc - if the tip bends into the overlay you've got problems...
Gordon

Offline adb

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 10:13:19 am »
Hmmmm... I've never had a tip overlay come off. Some pics would be good.

Offline brian_restivo

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 10:37:49 am »
nope...   tips stiff for four inches. Positive thats not it, still have lines snapped and sprayed down the sides. I try to leave them right to the end. Lets me see where its taking the set. Its a little late for pictures of the bend, but this might be just the excuse I need to pick up a camera. At least I could get pics of both tips.
Does it make me a hippocrate, typing here at my computer, when I call myself a neo luddite??

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 10:38:16 am »
I have found the 5 minute and two ton epoxies are not designed for bow work, very brittle and don't withstand shock well.

Try super glue gel. Most people that use horn for overlays use it as a glue. Acetone degreasing is unnecessary and too rough a surface is a minus, especially with super glue.

Offline brian_restivo

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 10:59:28 am »
I'll have to try that. It makes sense that its the epoxy. The one that came off last year I'm pretty sure it was the epoxy. The joint was good and tight until one day it turned white. 
Does it make me a hippocrate, typing here at my computer, when I call myself a neo luddite??

Offline Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 11:49:44 am »
on my heavy bows and recurves i have had super glue fail, devcon fail, but never titebond 3  just a light coat, clamp and a couple hours dry time and never had one come off. They call it wood glue for a reason. if nothing else give the tb3 a try. good luck to you- Ryan
Formerly "twistedlimbs"
Gill's Primitive Archery and HuntPrimitive

Offline Parnell

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 12:11:03 pm »
I'm with Ryan.  Even my first bows that were less than refined, had rough looking glue jobs on the overlays have never failed using TB3.  Gotta be it.
1’—>1’

Offline Josh

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 12:27:31 pm »
I've had a tip overlay come off with the 5 min epoxy.  (Happened at the Tenn. Classic last year when I bumped the tip end on my truck.)  I Re-glued it with some super glue I borrowed from someone there.  I shot the practice course with it and it didn't come back off.  I haven't used the 5 min epoxy since.  None of the ones I have glued on with super glue, tite bond, or Urac have failed but I definitely won't be using the 5 min epoxy again.  I think it dries too brittle to handle the shock of the string return when shooting.   :)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 01:31:56 pm by Josh »
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Offline brian_restivo

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 01:38:14 pm »
Anyone tried "Kwick-It Blue" out of the 3Rivers catalog??
Does it make me a hippocrate, typing here at my computer, when I call myself a neo luddite??

Cacatch

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 01:46:22 pm »
Easiest solution would be to forget overlays on knocks. Unless maybe you're using a very soft wood, you don't really need them. I never put overlays on anything.

CP

Offline BearG

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Re: tip overlay falure... Please help. I'm at a loss...
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 01:52:39 pm »
most all epoxies 5 min. or even long cure are very crystalline in nature and don't like to move at all.  same with superglue but it seems to work. (don't know why)
I call a lot of people brother, but only count a few as family.