78" hackberry pyramid bow build along in progess... UPDATED with full draw pic

[toomanyknots]

Well I got this hackberry stave. Actually, due to very nice splitting and a good sized stave, I have two staves. The one I will be using is:

78" long
1 1/2 inch thick at the least thick point
3" wide at the least widest point

pics:












Got the string out, decided a center line and marked the three compass points.



Got froggy with the hacket, now it looks like either a 10" typical pyramid bow handle, or a smaller, like 7" or 8" handle on a pyramid/paddle bow. Will probably go for the pyramid tapered paddle bow. All i'm talkin about is this:



or this:



Mabie it's better to call it a propeller bow. The one I roughed out the sides on is the 78" er. The one to the right is the 73". Could easily get 3" wide at the fades with this guy.

 

Another way I keep centerline is use a very straight board, works nice if you got a wavy stave that lifts the string and causes it to not be straight.





Got finished doing everything I need the hacket for. Hacked out the side profiles just a wee bit some and reduced the belly, trying to strike a balance between getting enough wood off so that further reduction with finer tools is not so hard on me, but more importantly not taking too much wood off. For me and my dangerously clumsy accident prone hands, it is better (for me) to leave more wood than I need when using my hacket.





Now I use a 8 dollar meat cleaver I got at walmart to clean up my decimated mess of a stave.



I love that thing. Works awesomely.

Ya, I HAVE run into a problem already, but I don't know if there is anyway I can explain it clearly without drawing fifthy thousand horrible ms paint pictures I don't feel like drawing and no one feels like looking at. It is an alignment problem, I mean it is more of a complication to roughing out the profile than a problem. Probably went too fast when centerlining it. The way to remedy it involves turning the bow just slightly, turning like you were spinning a top, to get an idea of what I mean, to gain a good centerline with the handle. I still got alot of wood to work with. It was very stupied and hasty of me to hack out the handle partially, but I felt like I needed something to go on while profiling it. Don't ask me why. I just got excited, This kind of makes the back incline to one side, and to get an even bow form I will have to SLIGHTY violate some rings on one side of the bow. I have did this on ash a bunch of times and once on a hackberry, so I know I will be alright, I just wanted to state it early so yall know whats comin.

 





Roughing out the profile has been a little slow. Due to alignment issues verses the natural curve of the crown of the wood, which anyone with any kinda sence would follow the crown when roughing out a bow from a stave like this one, anyone except me. This ones gonna have some character. Had to violate some rings like I said earlier, but it's a comin along. Ring violations are ONLY on the sides, and not too bad. If hackberry is so much like elm with the interconecting grains, then it should be ok, right? Nothing near the middle where all the stress is. Now, this hackberry stuff DOES have a heartwood, contrary to what one might think after messing with small staves of it. (one like me) It's a dark brown stuff, real real hard, but has to be a real big tree to actually develop that much. Anyway, this is what I theorize, lol. If you can see in my sideways pic, theres just a trace of it left on the belly. It collects it's self around knots and the like too. And then sometimes seems to disappear completely. Is elm the same way? Never worked elm before. Sneaky heartwood, right there.



close up

[toomanyknots]

Welp, got er on the tree finally. Don't know why. It's flimsy as crud, still green wood underneath after removing so much wood. So I'm shooting myself in the foot. Just don't care. Violated the back ring I don't even know how many times. Due to me being lazy and not wanting to steam bend, I didn't follow the crown but just roughed it out already in alignment and now the cross section looks like a lop sided potato that someone stepped on. lol Plus it's hot all hell outside.

Heres where I got it bending. It does look like it's got a hinge on the right limb. I don't even remember if it does. It might. Either way I would say I should get it bending closer to the fades on the right.





And after this far, a wopping two inches of set already! So I'm leaving this alone for a little bit, gonna throw it in the car on a couple hot days, and get back at it. I didn't take enough pictures tillering. One limbs was reflexed about 2 inches already, and one was straight. So hopefully it will dry even. Please excuse my crappy photography. First time really trying to get good pictures of anything. I'm not very good at it obviously.

Back:



Belly:



Side:



And kitty:



Anyone wanna chime in on the tiller, feel free! I wanna go for a elliptical tiller, but will probably end up with a "close to" circler one.

Thanks for following my little build along!

 

[Badger]

   If the wood is still wet there is no point in looking at the tiller. The bow needs to be dry before you start bending it. You can't build a bow with green wood and expect much from it. Let it sit for a month or so then come back. Steve

[youngbowyer33]

I think I know what you mean about the crown. At the tips it's shaped almost like a quarter of a log because you had to make it that way for the string alignment? Or something like that perhaps?it happened to me once and I was going to still try and use the stave but then it warped badly to the side so I declared it garbage.

[toomanyknots]

Well, it's been drying for about a month, but it was a fairly thick stave as you can see. Definitely still kinda green.

[elk country rp]

i'd recommend strapping it down with a few inches of reflex & letting dry for another month.

[toomanyknots]

I'm bout tat do exactly that elk. After I steam a bit of relfex in mid limb. I just got impatient with it. Which is a very bad thing to be.

Got good and ready to break my bow the other day. Figured I'd try to get rid of some set by recurved the tips a bit. Wanted to try recurving this hackberry that is supposed to be so good at bending. It is pretty good. Didn't wanna go too far. But I still did. Recurved one limb, and tryed to recurve the other but realized I frogot about this big old knot on the belly. So I lifted a splinter on the belly. Like an idiot. I already knew I was going too, just didn't feel like un recurving the one limb in the one spot and re recurving it in another. Not too bad. I just used some wood glue and a C clamp to lay er back down. After sanding you won't even be able to tell.

My super dangerous steaming thing I usually forget I'm using and almost burn down the house. (just kidding)





This is my bow breaker. Not so much a bending action, as a breaking one. Right in half. (crappy pic quality, sorry)





Just some 2 by 4 nailed to together and a rope plus some padding. Pretty good at breaking bows.

After slightly recurving the limbs. Hopefully they will just end up straight, like a straight tipped, that would remove enough set to have a good bow.



Where it lifted:



Glued it back down:



Now for some "hot car in the sun" drying for a couple days. Let it sit for a couple days. Then nock it, tiller it, post a full draw. (hopefully, )


------------------And the next day----------------------------------------------

Got fed up with the alignment issue with this bow and wanted to see what it looked like braced. So after steamin it and gluing back down that little oppsy I decided to just finish it and get it over with. Felt kinda stupied that my first real thread and first build along turned out so crappy. Turned out better than I expected. Kinda fixed itself. Thank God. Got REAL lucky on that one. lol Now I'm still not saying it's a total success. Haven't finished it yet and it's still got alot of set. I'm gonna try to steam some reflex in the mid limbs a bit to remedy that. I knew I was gonna get too much set, I was just anxious to use my new camera. Ill reflex it. Then dry it real good. Then finish it.

Any way, came in at 66# at 28". (really it will probably come in around 60 after sanding and everything.)

On the tree:







It's actually got more set than it looks like in the un braced pic. I think because it's a big bow it tricks you into thinkin it's got less set some how, like an illusion or something??? Oh yeah, and you probably can't notice from the crappy picture quality, but one limb has a little reflex and one has none! (ARG) And I can't just reflex the other one to meet the reflexed on because it's the knot that lifted a bit of wood. Ill even it out I figure by reflexing mid limb. Should of took my time and wood have a much nicer bow. Like yall said. Now I have to steam and reflex again which aint good for the bow. But thats what happens when you rush things.

[Badger]

   I can't figure out why you decided to finish the bow without drying to wood first? I can understand getting excited with a first piece of wood but your bows wll be 100% better if you just learn a bit of patience. You ruin the wood when you bend it green, it might shoot an arrow but it won't shoot very well. Steve

[toomanyknots]

Well I left it in the car all day in the hot sun. It's pretty dry. Very light and hard. Makes the "dry" sound when you click your fingernails against it. Would of been better if I left it for a month. I know. It wasn't green green, it was just taking set like green wood would is what I meant. It had been drying in the heat for a good month already. I just got fed up with the stupied alignment. No badger I dont work green wood. I just make bows that preform like they are green. lol

[Josh]

Man that's a looooong bow... We'll look at it again for August Self Bow of the Month fun, too.   

[toomanyknots]

Ok, set is officially 3 1/2" on the limb that lost it's reflex, and 2 1/2" on the one that kept it. So I am going to go against all reason and try to steam bend the one that lost it again. One thing I have learned about steam bending is the less you have to apply pressure to bend after steaming, the better it will keep it's shape. Once the other limb is bent even I will use the smooth side of my farriers rasp in a slighty horizontial pattern to smooth big tools marks off, then my smaller home depots rasp smooth side remove the rasp marks I just put on, then a file to remove those marks, then finally 60 up to 220 grit. Then buffer with a glass bottle till it shines like glass. Wax it till it looks like a mirror. And then take some of my bleached linen and make a nice white string. And then will post some finished photos. And as a note as I believe I may have been a little confusing, I didn't work green wood. The stave I started working had been drying for a month in the hot summer heat. After roughing out and letting her chill in the car in the sun for a full 12 hours I started tillering. After that it was holding set like it was green and I really should of waited another month or another day in my van. But I was getting very fed up with the way I profiled it and the alignment which made the roughing out take days and days, and was really just ready to get over with this buildalong that I had started.

[toomanyknots]

Video of it shooting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipOTaU_jK5g

[rileyconcrete]

Wow  that is a ginormous bow with a huge handle section.  The limbs look like they are not bending out of the fades and out 10" or so.

Tell

[Justin Snyder]

It looks good.

After you steam wood it should dry for at least 4 or 5 days. It is 110* with almost no humidity here most of the summer. I still wait 3-4 days before bending the wood.  Also, a month isn't long enough for green wood to dry. While it may have been mostly dry, the last 5% of moisture to leave the wood is the most crucial and that can take a long time depending on the RH. Most guys let wood sit for years not months before building a bow.

[toomanyknots]

To everyone:

I know I should of dryed the wood more. I just wanted to get it over with and see if the alignment was ruined/it was gonna twist unfixably, turn into fire wood, exc... like I thought it was going to do. I know that. Please stop telling me that. Because I know that. lol Thank you!

Justin:

"Most guys let wood sit for years not months before building a bow."

Those guys are probably not using white wood. And they are probably not roughing the profile out first. If you rough the profile out on a white wood bow, as long as it's not too deep a bow, it'll dry out pretty good in a couple weeks in the summer. Definitely good enough to make a bow.

"After you steam wood it should dry for at least 4 or 5 days."

Whoa. Never heard that. Steaming actually drys the wood out anyway. I've broke it before from it steaming too much and not waiting for it to actually get it's moisture back. I usually wait 4 or five hours/overnight enless it's old dry wood.
 
Riley

"Wow  that is a ginormous bow with a huge handle section"

Handle section is about 7 1/2". I am also only 5.5 tall. Might be the contrast, like a midgit shooting a longbow? lol




THANK YALL FOR COMMENTING ON MY FIRST BUILDALONG!