Author Topic: Question on Black Locust (Read 9086 times)

Pappy · « **on:** April 04, 2007, 09:51:41 am »

I am about to attempt my first BL.bow and need some advice on dimensions.I had a guy give
me a BL board it was 36 in. long 8 in. wide and over 2 in. thick and I had thought about a
backed bow,but since I ant much of a backed bow kind of guy I was looking at it and the grain was prefect the way it was sawed so I cut in half and chased the growth ring on both half's and spliced it in the handle.I laid it out 17/8 at the fades to mid. limb and tapered to 3/8 at the tips.and cut it to 66 n-n.I want in the low 50's at 26in. so is this a good lay out or is it way overbuilt.Or would a straight tapper to the tip be a better set up.I have always heard the wood is bad about crystallizing on the belly and a pryamid would be easer to get a good tiller.Some advice please.

Pappy

Pat B · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2007, 10:28:39 am »

For me, who has ruined many many locust staves, I'd say overbuilt is the way to go. However, Jawge and Dave(Snedecker) would probably disagree. Locust, even though it is the strongest North American hardwood in compression, it is brittle and therefore suceptable to fretting...at least for me.
Take it real slow and don't stress the wood at all. Exercise it well between sessions and good luck. My only successful locust bow is 68 1/2" long, 1 1/2" at the fades with a slight taper to about 8" from the tips where it is 1" wide. Then tapering to long narrow tip(holmsgaard style). This bow I named "Sweetness" as per Jawge's suggestion, who is so successful with locust. Pat

DBernier · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2007, 10:31:58 am »

Hi Pappy, I made my first BL bow a couple months ago. Let me go thru the exercise and maybe something will come out of it. The bow is 71 inches long. It has the hour glass handle I like. At the fades it is 1 1/2 inches wide and is a reasonably straight tapper on the top limb and varies on the bottom because of a knot and a "HOLE". The tips are 5/8 inches wide. It is 5/8 thick at the fades and 3/8 at the nocks. As you can see I added a patch on the belly side to help offset the hole in the back. There are a few slight "hinges I guess" on the back but after 150 or so shots don't seem to have gotten worse. You can see them in the photo. The tiller is very good, little stiff at the patch, but it shoots good and is 47# @ 28 inches. I don't want to take anymore off the belly and drop the weight. I wanted it about 50-55# and I could have shortened it but it is just so smooth. I will have it at your Classic for you to look at and comment on. I am hoping to have Vinson with me as well as Pat B.

Dick

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DBernier · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2007, 10:37:50 am »

Hello Pappy and Pat B. I am going to get some more BL and do a couple more of these. I will want to raise the poundage and see what gives. I still plan on keeping them 68 to 70+ inches long.

Dick

George Tsoukalas · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2007, 10:43:46 am »

Thanks, Pat. I've made quite a few BL bows. I'm pretty sure there are regional differences in the stuff. Northern BL is pretty good. The trouble is that it looks like osage so people assume they can use close to osage dims but you can't. I go wider and longer. I'd go at least 1 3/4 inches wide and at least 66 inches long for a 26 inch draw. Tiller well it can chrysal though I've had more ash chrysal on me than BL. Jawge

George Tsoukalas · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2007, 10:46:48 am »

The Native Americans here in New England favored BL, white oak and hickory. Jawge

Hillbilly · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2007, 11:30:56 am »

The only problems I've had with BL were chrysals in spots where it bent too much, my fault for getting in a hurry. I believe sometimes that going too wide with it can cause you to end up with thinner limbs which are easier to hinge. Like Jawge said, locust seems to be quite variable, even from one tree to the next. It's good wood, though, and heat bends just like osage. I don't have as much experience with it as some of these other guys, but about 1 5/8" seems like a good compromise width for locust. It also makes good bendy-handled Eastern Woodlands flatbows. Almost all the old Cherokee bows still existing are BL.

Pappy · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2007, 12:17:10 pm »

Well my lay out is pretty close I guess,dose it need to be flat on the belly or should I round it a little.I make Osage and Hickory flat most of the time.Thanks for the replies it is a good looking piece
and I want to give it every chance.

Pappy

Hillbilly · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2007, 12:51:56 pm »

Flat as a pancake. Or even trapped.

Pappy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2007, 01:00:18 pm »

Thanks guys,that's what I love about this place.

Pappy

Ryano · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2007, 01:29:23 pm »

Pappy, just treat it like any other white wood and it should be fine. It does tend to very a lot from tree to tree, Ive worked some that was nearly as good as osage and some that wasnt any where near. I think that is where steves (badger) formula thing for mass might work good...never tried it yet.

DanaM · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:06:21 pm »

ok thats a new term, whats trapped mean?

DanaM

Hillbilly · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:30:46 pm »

Dana, "trapped" means a trapezoidal limb cross section, where the belly is wider than the back. You would do this with some woods or laminated combos of woods where the back is likely to overpower the belly.

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George Tsoukalas · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2007, 04:12:02 pm »

Pappy, BL is not a whitewood. It is a heartwood. Sapwood should come off. Where you have a board you may want to consider a backing. The sapwood is white. The heartwood ranges from yellow-green to brown. Look at the board closely and see what you have. Jawge

Pappy · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2007, 05:26:32 pm »

Jawge ,it started out a board,a very thick board,the sap wood is gone and I have chased the growth ring and some are right it looks a lot like Osage.What I did was turn the board into a stave I guess you could say.It would be the same thing now as if it came straight from log

Pappy I am about to attempt my first BL.bow and need some advice on dimensions.I had a guy give
me a BL board it was 36 in. long 8 in. wide and over 2 in. thick and I had thought about a
backed bow,but since I ant much of a backed bow kind of guy I was looking at it and the grain was prefect the way it was sawed so I cut in half and chased the growth ring on both half's and spliced it in the handle.I laid it out 17/8 at the fades to mid. limb and tapered to 3/8 at the tips.and cut it to 66 n-n.I want in the low 50's at 26in. so is this a good lay out or is it way overbuilt.Or would a straight tapper to the tip be a better set up.I have always heard the wood is bad about crystallizing on the belly and a pryamid would be easer to get a good tiller.Some advice please.
Pappy

Primitive Archer