D bows & BOM

[medicinewheel]

... I would like to see a page set up for primitives (made with Aboriginal tools and materials, that includes hand cutting with a stone and splitting) a Neo primitive --mostly primitive but used some modern... Maybe thats too much and we could do it all on one page.  ...

If the BOM list would somehow point out it's a primitive bow made all the way with primitive tools, I'm sure that bow will find its audience along the gang!
But still we can only judge that bow by pictures...

[dragonman]

What is really primitive?? The primitive mindset was firstly practical and only secondly concerned with looks, Primitive people used what was at hand to get the job done, they didnt imitate other peoples bows from the past, purely for their looks and  style!!!. So are we on about primitive replicas, or bows made with a primitive attitude?? Judging anything by it looks is a bit shallow! Just stirring the pot a bit

[medicinewheel]

... The primitive mindset was firstly practical and only secondly concerned with looks, ...

Well, I disagree entirely on that: decoration seems to be a major thing on Native American bows as much as on many African and Asian bows (and other weapons) on stoneage level; I'm sure it was not different in ancient Europe (f.e. the Meare Heath bow had some rawhide wrapped in a pattern, that most likely had no function). Decoration (such as cave art) had to do with medicine, and therefore decoration was of outstanding importance, survival situation excluded.

[Parnell]

Wow, this turned into a discussion!  I'd hope that if anyone went far enough to go the no power/stone tools route that they'd give us all a build along.  I love those build-a-longs when it comes to seeing stuff like that.  I think that if I saw the progression of a bow that someone maybe really was pushing for in the contest, it'd be more persuasive.
As much as I would enjoy winning BOM my primary enjoyment with bow-making is getting my friends to shoot what I've made and giving them as gifts.  It always amazes me how most people are in touch with archery even if they don't know it.  I mean shoot, my friends wive's and girlfriends even get swept up in it and want to shoot when they see "the guys" doing it in the back.  I find that over a cold pop or two that it sparks a lot of conversation about food and hunting and many people who didn't understand the value of hunting begin to get a better appreciation of it's true importance.  The ladies tend to get it more as well when they see that someone bothering to put in the work involved, knapped heads are the cake topper.  But I digress.  
I'm just glad to see various opinions on what people look for.  It is interesting to check out since we're not all living in the same town meeting up to shoot on a field and shootin the breeze around a real campfire frequently.  Sometimes I kinda wondered if there was a bit of, "oh let me see if I can pick the one that will win and I'll vote for that one" mentality.  But it doesn't appear that way, and that's good.

[Dane]

What is really primitive?? The primitive mindset was firstly practical and only secondly concerned with looks, Primitive people used what was at hand to get the job done, they didnt imitate other peoples bows from the past, purely for their looks and  style!!!. So are we on about primitive replicas, or bows made with a primitive attitude?? Judging anything by it looks is a bit shallow! Just stirring the pot a bit

Dragonman, this comes up time and again, but is such an interesting topic and thought exercise.

My opinion is that there is no way to really become “primitive”. We are creatures of our educations, religions and philosophies, our cultures, our technologies, our relationships, and our societies. We are born into and trapped in the here and now and live in the modern world, and the education and knowledge and customs we have acquired will always be an intrinsic part of our makeup.

You can strive to get in touch with a Neolithic or medieval or Viking or 19th century ancestor, but can never really succeed. Even if you make a bow with stone tools and all accurate materials, you travel to the tree cutting site in modern clothing in your car or on foot in your modern boots using modern roads, then going home to your electrically-lit shop in your modern home, breathing polluted air, listening to traffic pass on a distant road, and so on. Overhead is a small aircraft, and then your cell phone rings, ruining the mood entirely.

I do think that you can get in touch a wee tiny bit with a bowyer of any period, as we essentially do the same thing as a bow maker of 10,000 years ago. The same skills and craftsmanship are used, and the same goal is there, to tiller and craft a wooden spring to fling little feathered sticks at a target. Every bow we make – Holmegaard, ELB, AFB, Asiatic composite, Viking yew, Native American short bow– is state of the art for their time and place and requirements. The only true primitive bow is the very first one, which is lost in time.

I like thinking of making a bow as invoking the ghosts of our past. They swirl around us always, and making a bow brings these revenants closer to our conscious existence, but the phantoms are always out of reach.

Dane

[dragonman]

I agree Dane, I was just teasing,(although there is some truth in it), I think using natural materials is a good basic rule, which is what we are all doing!!!. I do think though Medicine wheel, that decoration would always come second to function,, who would bother seriously decorating a duff bow , in any age??

[Josh]

I agree Dane, I was just teasing,(although there is some truth in it), I think using natural materials is a good basic rule, which is what we are all doing!!!. I do think though Medicine wheel, that decoration would always come second to function,, who would bother seriously decorating a duff bow , in any age??

My point EXACTLY!!!!!       

[Justin Snyder]

who would bother seriously decorating a duff bow , in any age??

There appears to be quite a few bows out there that were made almost entirely for appearance. Many "medicine bows" were very decorated  and it isn't positive if they were even functional.

[Shadow Walker]

All I can add to this thread is as follows:
I have seen many elaborately decorative bows on this site as well as many character bows. The one common denominator to me,at least, is that their is an inheritant beauty to them all.
Multiple layers of fancy wood can be quite an eye catcher, but certainly it does not put to shame the natural beauty of a character bow (especially a twisted, knotty, stubborn stave).
The caliber of bowery skills on this site is awe inspiring, and I constantly find myself battling with which type I prefer. In the end, I have to conclude that, be it a fancy osage recurve, or a finely tillered D bow, a self bow or a laminated bow,( as long as they are good shooters) They all deserve a warm place in the spot light.

[medicinewheel]

... I do think though Medicine wheel, that decoration would always come second to function,, who would bother seriously decorating a duff bow , in any age??

Well, yes, most likely, but as Justin S points out, not even that is for sure.
On top of that I've seen pictures of many NA war axes, war clubs, spears and even bows so heavily decorated, that it must have negatively influenced functionality, yet they were made that way.

[n2huntn]

Nice feedback on this post , in the current issue of PA though the winning bow is a premade blank that was skinned and tillered, not sure how you judge that. Beautiful bow no doubt but do we actually vote for the bow or the bowyer in this case.I have yet to see a bow I did not like on here and enjoy the sharing of ideas and people willing to share hard learned skills. As for the pictures a plain shot on the tiller tree should show you all you need to know but pretty backgrounds are eye candy and detail work is worth bragging about. With that said not many bows here appear to be primitive nor are the skills required to produce such fine weapons, but that may be a matter of opinion and very subjective. It doesn't really matter to me , I am more of a self made bowyer/hunter, kinda do it yourself type, not store bought.
We could argue further over definitions , self bow, backed bow , composite etc. but that may need to be on another post. I enjoy them all and no ones opinion is the right one, just you like what you like and thats how you vote.
Jeff

[okiecountryboy]

... I do think though Medicine wheel, that decoration would always come second to function,, who would bother seriously decorating a duff bow , in any age??

Well, yes, most likely, but as Justin S points out, not even that is for sure.
On top of that I've seen pictures of many NA war axes, war clubs, spears and even bows so heavily decorated, that it must have negatively influenced functionality, yet they were made that way.

I agree
Ron


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[Dane]

Grave goods bows, too, sometimes appear to be non functional. A bunch of bows buried with Tut were highly gilded, and one pull would have ruined the finish, so it is doubtful they were intended to be shot in this world. I seem to recall some grave bows and good being destroyed so they couldnt turn on the dead guy in the afterlife, too.

Dane

[gpw]

  Whatever happened to just making bows and arrows and having FUN ??   I make bows for myself , not to please anybody else...  Sometimes I even use materials that are NOT considered "primitive"    Who Cares I don't !!!  

 Which leads to another question ...    I see a lot of D bows here tillered real "bendy" in the handle ...  I always made mine more arc of a circle...  have I missed something

[KenH]

in the current issue of PA though the winning bow is a pre-made blank that was skinned and tillered,...

I wondered about that too.  If you buy something essentially finished and just decorate it, is that really bow making?  

But then I realized that there are only 30 or 40 people voting for BOM, and they're probably pretty much the same 30-40 people each month, so the bows that are chosen are really just the choices of a handful of friends about each others' bows.  Or that's the way it seems from my perspective...