Question about getting better cast per pound?

[Sidewinder]

I am sure I have heard this before but considering how spotty my bow making efforts have been over the last couple years I just don't remember. I understand that we want to get as much of the bend in the limbs distributed throughout as much as possible with the last 6" or so being a non working lever. Does getting the bow working more into the fade area help to increase cast provided that its not done too early in the tillering process and cause too much set? Also with a mild amount of reflex, is the idea to get the limbs to open up from the bottom outter third?
 Hope this is'nt a stupid question, my reason is I am wanting to make a few lighter weight bows in the 40's and don't want them to under perform too much compared to my 50's.   Danny

[Badger]

  Not sure if there really is an answer to your question. I like to leave my wood a bit stiff out of the fades and as I get further into the tillering process tap into it if I need the extra bending wood. You often hear guys say the full draw profile should match the front view of the bow. This is true, so all tiller shapes will not look alike. For the most durable bow you would naturally use as much limb as you have to work with but often times the wood will show itself to be a little better than we expected and we can take advantage of that by not using all the limb to bend.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Danny Id suggest very narrow tips. 

[PEARL DRUMS]

One more thought. Longer bows can generally spit a quicker arrow if the draw length matches the bow length.

[bushboy]

Danny,I've been playing around with this design.here's another lever bow I made this weekend.I trimmed a lot of the outter mass to almost a pryamid taper and my lever are about 5/8" at the thickest.spindle sanded levers and trapped back(hickory board).on the next one I'm gonna get the inner limbs coming around a bit more.this design shoots very fast for a 48#er. Just a thought,regards rob!

[bow101]

Nice lever bow, excellent tiller.

[blackhawk]

Hmm...yes ..tough one to answer...you can prob answer that better yourself than anyone here can...you know what you like best...but I'll take a stab since I know ya a lil bit....and since I know you prefer osage ... n draw about 26" make a 64-66" ntn osage modern holmgaard profile...and really get those tips narrow(1/4" at the string groove),and when I mean tips I mean the last 10-12" and not just the last few inches....make it no wider than 1 1/4"(preferably 1 1/8" for that weight IMO) at the fades and make that width run for 6" then give it a subtle convex taper to 10" away from the string grooves to no wider than an inch(preferably 7/8"),and then sweep your taper in the Tim baker eifell tower taper,and make sure its no wider than a half inch 6" from the tips..I use calipers to check mine so Im speaking literally to the decimal...make it a deep narrow stiff handle and cut a shelf and you'll be loving it....its a great balanced all around good shooting design...I'm not much of a performance junkie anymore but this design will still spit an arrow well at the lower draw weights,and are pleasant drawing,releasing,shooting,n more importantly an accurate bow....making it a more forgiving of errors design IMO. its all about hitting the mark and not just fps...there's so many other variables out there as to what makes a good shooting bow...and that design scores well in all those factors at play IMO

[Badger]

  Nice bow Bushboy, I bet she flings em fast.

[huisme]

My fastest have been mollegabets without contest, especially black locust. Super skinny tips carefully tillered working limbs, bendy handle for the higher weights, try to do extra-ring back knocks too skinny for side knocks to keep weight down, and you've got a real screamer.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for the help guys.
Rob..nice. I think your getting that lever bow thing worked out. Your making more shaving than me right now for sure. You ever make it back up north?

Badger thanks for the response, I was wondering if leaving the fades alone until you need a little more bend would help me avoid set, seems like it would.

Pearlie....Thanks for the reminder on less mass on the tips, I had forgotten about how much of an effect it can have on cast.

Blackhawk, I love the design you described. I've seen several of your bows that looks like what you descibed and the tips are ultra narrow. I know osage can take alot more up there than most so I will not be shy about it this time. Every bow I have made have been narrower and narrower in the last 6". I will expand that to about 10-12".

I am making this one for a hunting/fishing buddy of mine that was previously a compund shooter years ago and has'nt bow hunted in several years because it was no longer a challenge. Now when deer season comes along he justs breaks out his muzzleloader and/or rifle and puts a couple deer in the freezer. I got him interested in shooting longbows when he comes out to our place and we shoot a stuffed animal( poor mans 3D) archery course in the woods below our place. He has been liking it and I decided I would make him one so he does'nt have to borrow one of my spares. He is fairly fit and strong for a 60yr old but I know his archery muscles are not in shape and that if its uncomfortable to shoot he won't be inclined to follow through and get into it more. Thus the below 50"s weight I'm shooting for.

He draws 28 1/2" I want to go to 29" at about 48#. It is currently 63 1/2" long.4" non working handle and 2" fades.  8" total non workin. 1 3/16" wide until the last 8". The upper limb has a 1/4" dead knot all the way through about 4" out of the fades that I left about 1 1/2" wide around it and then taper back to 1 3/16". That limb tends to drift to the left some there out of line and then at about 9" from tip drifts back to the right in line. I've already made a few heat adjustments but I think if I just reduce the width taper on the left side it will even up. The bottom limb is consistant until the last 8" where there is another dead knot that is 1/8". I left it 1 1/4" around it then taper to the tips. I intend to add buff horn tips overlays so I can go really narrow.  I know a picture is worth a thousand words but I have'nt taken any yet. If I must to get more clear advise on how to proceed let me know.

Danny

[Marc St Louis]

My philosophy is get the wood to work the most where it is the widest.

I have seen very old flat-bows bows that had the outer limbs working too much.  They no doubt stood up for awhile but when I examined them the outer limbs were full of chysals.

That's a bit short for a 29" draw especially with knots.

[George Tsoukalas]

One of my favorite designs is a narrowed handle bow (not too narrow) that bends through the fades...not too much...just a little.

Why?

Lets me bend it just a little shorter for my draw length...not too much just a little.

That means it will shoot the arrow just a little better and perhaps cut down on the set just a little.

Jawge

[Sidewinder]

Marc, how much is a bit. What should it be for that draw length? I know that osage will take alot. If I need to start on a longer piece of wood I will, I have a small little stash(hehehe) I could go through. Last year I made a 62" one with a 29" draw for Spanky Brooks, but it did'nt have any knots. It's still shooting good for the him, he's harvested game with it but he does'nt shoot it as often as he does his laminated bow. He's a competion shooter so he's more concerned with hitting the 10 and 12 ring and his FG/laminated setup does not vary.  Danny