Something is really bugging me

[NTD]

Kilted,

While I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that we should not wantonly kill rattlesnakes, or any snake for that matter, I do disagree with you on quite a few of your statements in general.  In truth relocating a rattlesnake is almost as good as killing it.  Relocation programs are truly a moot point that just make people feel better, not the snake.  A Friend of mine Hugh McCrystal recently published a paper on the effects of relocation in the book "Biology of Rattlesnakes".  He discusses the impact of just touching the snake, let alone moving it at all.  Since you are a zoologist you may find this manual an interesting and enlightening read.

In my opinion if the snake was killed, consumed and it's parts utilized it actually was better off that way with a quick death than the resultant death from relocation.

Just my opinion from one snake lover to another.

Also in reference to the regs here in AZ.  No seasons, although I'd like for that to happen to protect gravid females, but we do have restricted methods of take and a yearly bag limit of 2-4 depending on species.

[kiltedcelt]

Kilted,

While I ABSOULTELY agree with you that we should not wantonly kill rattlesnakes, or any snake for that matter, I do disagree with you on quite a few of your statements in general.  In truth relocating a rattlesnake is almost as good as killing it.  Relocation programs are truly a moot point that just make people feel better, not the snake.  A Friend of mine Hugh McCrystal recently published a paper on the effects of relocation in the book "Biology of Rattlesnakes".  He discusses the impact of just touching the snake, let alone moving it at all.  Since you are a zoologist you may find this manual an interesting and enlightening read.

-One of my friends, Rob Carmichael wrote a chapter for that book. I agree that relocation, as in from say the trail to some area miles away is a very bad idea. However, in the instance of a snake on a heavily traveled trail, simply using a hook or the end of a bow to coax that snake off the trail, thus "relocating" it is certainly better than just electing to kill that snake.

In my opinion if the snake was killed, consumed and it's parts utilized it actually was better off that way with a quick death than the resultant death from relocation.

-I still think simply relocating the snake a couple dozen feet away from where it would have been sitting is preferable to killing it outright. I'm sure such a short distance of translocation is not what is meant the results of the study touched upon in the book you mention. I'll have to see if one of the guys I work with has a copy the book. I'd be curious to read the chapter that deals with translocation.

Just my opinion from one snake lover to another.

Also in reference to the regs here in AZ.  No seasons, although I'd like for that to happen to protect gravid females, but we do have restricted methods of take and a yearly bag limit of 2-4 depending on species.

[Tsalagi]

Great post, KiltedCelt. I agree with you 100%. A lot of folks don't realize just how much the rattlesnakes keep the rodent population down. And here in Hanta Virus Land, that's a very valuable service.

I never understood the mentality behind rattlesnake roundups. And I don't really want to, either.

[Justin Snyder]

Im with Nate on relocation. I leave it where it is or kill it. If there are kids in the area, a rattle snake is dead, end of story.

[Mudd]

The only skins I will apply to any of my bows these days are limbsations or skinz. I doubt either of these ever saw dirt before..lol

God bless,Mudd

PS Thanks for speaking out on behalf of good stewardship of the resources God gave us dominion over.

[Postman]

well said!  - I am a biology teacher and love seeing snakes in the wild, even after suffering a very bad copperhead bite in my garden.  It can be very hard to educate people on the usefullness of snakes. I have moved 5 rattlers from neighbors yards, and have seen 1 of them nearby in the national forest after moving it. I have posted pics of copperheads killed in my yard, but have also relocated about 20 from my yard to a known nearby den site, hoping they will imprint on it and survive. If i can safely get them, i catch them, but they are often near cover or rocks near my house. ( My rocky hillside is a hibernaculum and nursery area, and I have 2 small boys, so i was very conflicted on this rather large copperhead population even before the bite.) here's a pic of a LIVE timber mentioned above. Luckily, the timbers do not show up in my yard frequently. I think NTD is right - relocation usually death of the snake, but I hope my copperheads make it. 

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[wildman]

great post, I think someone did the same thing to the buffalo.I think every encounter with any animal in the wild is a gift and not always a target oppurtunity I always tell my girls two things there are no mean animals and don't kill it if your not gonna  eat it ,or use it (with the exception of asian carp killem all ) again great post very informative

[kiltedcelt]

great post, I think someone did the same thing to the buffalo.I think every encounter with any animal in the wild is a gift and not always a target oppurtunity I always tell my girls two things there are no mean animals and don't kill it if your not gonna  eat it ,or use it (with the exception of asian carp killem all ) again great post very informative

One thing I've endeavored to say in some of my replies is that unchecked, unsustainable use of snakes runs the risk of causing them to go the way of the Passenger Pigeon, the Buffalo, and the North Atlantic Cod. All were species that were either driven to extinction or the brink by a mentality of greed and a wrong assumption that the resource was limitless. Roundups right now are very likely along with habitat loss to be the force that pushes species like the Eastern Diamondback and the Western Diamondback to extinction if left unchecked.

[bubby]

in California,their is a one snake limit per year

[NTD]

This is taken from the California Game and Fish regulations.  Some snakes have a bag limit.  For instance Gopher snakes and Kingsnakes are 4...DAILY!!!  And look for yourself, Rattlesnakes are unprotected altogether

§5.60. Reptiles.
(a) General Provisions: Only the following reptiles may be
taken under the authority of a sportfishing license, subject to the
restrictions in this section. The limit for each of the species listed
below is two, unless otherwise provided. Limit, as used in this
section, means daily bag and possession limit. No reptiles shall
be taken from ecological reserves designated by the commission
in Section 630 or from state parks, or national parks or monuments.
(b) No sportfishing license is required for the sport take of
any rattlesnake.

[NTD]

Postman, that's got to be quite the dilemna you are in.  But at least you are doing the best you can for them considering the postion you are in.   

[Badger]

  I have lived around rattle snakes my entire life. They can be very dangerous and unpredictable especially around kids and dogs. I love snakes, frogs, turtles and most all wild life and wouldn't even consider killing one n their own habitat unless i wanted his skin for a abow. However people and rattlers don't mix. A 3-d course is people territory if snakes stay in the bushes they will have no problem, if they wind up on or near the pathes they will be killed on sight, no questions asked, no guilt, not happy about it but they are just too dangerous to have in a crowded area. I have been struck at several times in my life, always hit my pants or boots but it is very unnerving. Steve

[Pappy]

I feel the same as Steve,If they get in my yard,my wife has no mercy. She will chop them up so bad I can't even use the skin and then have me check to make sure they are dead.  I for sure don't go looking for them and I know some say I am invading there territory but it's my farm and they can't have it. If they stay away from me I will stay away from them.I had one bite Hannah my Lab last year at the cabin,I know you say that's what snakes do,but  that's what dogs do also and I think much more of my dog than I do a snake,so the snake is on a bow. Very pretty and won't bite Hannah again. She still growls when she sees that bow. 
   Pappy

[Postman]

How did you treat the dog, if at all, Pappy? glad she made it. I pretty much have to assume my dog will get tagged this year - she's very curious and hasn't seen a snake yet that I know of. Hope she makes it and learns her lesson.  My boys know about "boo-boo snakes " so as long as they keep their eyes open, they should be safe.

[Pappy]

We took her to the vet right away and they gave he a shot of something,the swelling was gone by morning,just not sure she learned her lesson. I have seen begels loose half there face from a snake bite.  This was from a copper head,we don't have any rattlers right in the area I live.I don't know why,you can go N/S/E/OR W 10 miles and there are plenty of timber rattlers but just not in our area,odd. And it ant because I killed them all either.
   Pappy