thanks guys. the pine tree is some pedernales (?), wasnt the toughest stuff ive worked but wasnt butter either. i can see why shannon likes these things. gonna try a few more and see if i can clean up the serations. . the mahogny knife is just shy of 11". still need to decide what to do for a wrap. i want to do something different and have been leaning towards some kind of bark wrapping. maybe elm