Looking for dimensions for a 75 pound red oak pyramid style self bow

[Orkraider]

I'm getting ready to make another bow, and I want to try and start off on the right foot with this one.

I'd like to end up with something in the 75 - 80 pound range, at a 28" draw.

I also want to stick with red oak board as material for this one, it's cheap, readily available, and I'm trying to get a feel for working with this wood before I move on to something else.

I'm planning on a cloth backing once again, either linen, burlap, or silk.

I don't have any volumes of TBB yet, so I'm having to glean what info I can elsewhere.

Based on what Jawge and some others said about my last build, I'm thinking of doing 3" wide (actual), and 78" long.

What I'd like to do, and what I will do if I don't hear about a better way of calculating actual size, is start with a 3" wide 78" long board, lay out the handle area, do a straight taper from the fades to the tips, rough it out, and start tillering.

I've read through some of Badgers posts regarding the mass principle, which makes really good sense, but I can't quite seem to figure how to take those ideas and translate them into figuring out rough dimensions based on desired draw weight and length.

Any tips, advice, links, etc. are appreciated, and I will be posting pictures as I go along.

Thanks!

[Aries]

sorry but i dont have any experience with red oak over 55lbs   That is gonna be a heck of a bow if it survives though!! lol

[Kegan]

The dimensions you have seem pretty close to what you'd need. I built a Flatbow from red oak at 80# @ about 26", 72" long and 2 1/4" wide to midlimb... it blew up when I was shooting it. I think it survived 25 shots. I've since stopped trying to get anything more than 60# from red oak boards. However, there have been a number of successful D bows drawing over 70#, I did one 70" long, about 1 1/2" wide between the mid limbs, drawing about 74#, and others have built them drawing over 80#.

[Dauntless]

A 3" wide pyramid bow is a lot of work, especially for a high poundage.  A Meare Heath design might be a tad simpler although it won't perform as well.

If you chase a ring on a plain sawn board you wouldn't need a backing.  Otherwise I'd go with the thickest linen you can find.

I've never gone heavier than 65# on red oak, but I've never backed it either.

[Tom Leemans]

O.K. I'll ask. Why 75#? and that is a lot to ask from red oak.

[Aries]

O.K. I'll ask. Why 75#? and that is a lot to ask from red oak.

i did hear someone say on the long bow forums that a properly designed bow pulling 100# is under equal or less stress than a childs bow. idk if this was BS but i suppose it could be applied here, mainly emphasizing the amount of wood that is going into this bow is going to need to be above the average dimensions for a red oak to compensate for the extra weight. which obviously he has done his gazentas on. Like I said, that'll me a heck of a "monster" bow if it survives . 3 wide by 78" will be one of the biggest bows ive seen. Ty

[Orkraider]

Ok, a lot of awesome replies, and Kegan, I'm especially glad to hear from you, I've seen a lot of good posts from you regarding bows I want to shoot in the weights I want to mess about with ;-)

As far as "why 75#"; when I decided back last July that I wanted to get into this, one of the goals I set myself was some day being able to make and draw something resembling a warbow.  Ideally, I'd like to get up to a 150# draw, but that's a ways off; I don't have weights, or money for a gym membership, and I'm only slowly starting to get some motivation to work out.

But shooting arrows hits me in my FUN spot, and I've found myself doing it 'til my arms are sore, so it's a really good fit for me as far as that goes.

As far as why, my previous experience with weapons comes from my time in the army reserve, I as an infantryman for 3 years, and a forward observer with a FIST team for another 3. So I'm fascinated by the ability of a given weapon to reach out and touch someone, hard, from a distance.

Now that I've seen how much fun bows in general are, and after a lot of talking to people I've met, It's very likely that I'm going to go deer hunting with a bow, if I get myself to a proficiency level that I feel good about. I've never hunted before, but I think I'd like to try it, and I'm one of those people who would eat and/or use every last bit of the deer, from the tail to the nose.

So, my current bow is just over #70 or so, I want to make my next one better, shooting for 75# or a touch more; the one after that will prolly be #80 and so on.

Red oak, well, I liked working with it on the 2 bows I've done so far, it's cheap and readily available.

I do understand that this might very well not work; but I'm curious as to what dimensions I should be going for in the attempt. Even more, I'd like to figure out HOW to get the dimensions.

What I'd really like is a program that let me plug in a bow type, draw length, and draw weight, and then spit out some numbers like "It has to be 8 foot long, 5 inches wide, and made out of balsa", for example.


This ended up being a super long post; if you make it this far, thank you!

[Orkraider]

I see Aries replied while I was writing my novel length post;

I had got some feedback that a red oak board bow needed to be wider and longer to have a chance of hitting that draw weight, from Jawge, and I always try and put his advice on the very top of the "llisten to this well" pile.

Now, my goal isn't to make a big huge monster bow, so I can say, "look how cool I am with my big huge monster size things, wink, wink", lol, but at the same time, if that's what it takes to make the type and kind of bow I want, I can hang with that.

And I don't mind people staring at me as I bus to the archery range. 8-)

[Kegan]

I'd say give it a shot . At 78"x 3", you're sure to have enough bend to reach weight (especially if you managed to get a successful 70#er like you did ). With higher weights, starting wider is the safest bet (hard to tiller when they get too wide, but still). Going long and wide should really help you out, and a backing should make it very possible. Actually, if you're going a full 3" wide and backed, you might be able to get away with a 74" or so long bow.

[Orkraider]

well alrighty then, I'm a go for it.

I'm hitting menards to pick up some other stuff tomorrow, and I reckon I might pick up a board for that bow while I"m at it.

Also making me some new arrows, now that I finally found a place near me that sells cheap field points. woohoo!

Thanks for the feedback, all!

Riley, Saint Paul, MN

[Badger]

  The problem you are going to have with red oak 3/4" thick at that weight is that the handle will flex too much unless you come down to about 72". I made a 100# red oak 72" long 1 1/2" wide that was bend through the handle. for a stiff handle i would say 72" long and about 2 1/2" wide.for a pyramid with a circular tiller and stiff handle, but even at that the hanle will likley flex too much too hold a build up if you narrow it beyond about 1 1/2" wide. Steve

[Orkraider]

Hey, Badger, I was really glad to see a reply from you, I know you're really on top of this stuff; I found your mass principle stuff to be fascinating, although I'm still trying to digest it.

Let me back up a little bit.. Do you think it's possible to do a 75# red oak self bow with a stiff handle, using a 3/4 inch board? If so, what type and dimensions would you suggest?

I'm feeling my beer a little, so I'm gonna come back and check this in the a.m. Cheers!

[Badger]

   If I were going to do it i would look for the densest piece of red oak I could find. The handle is going to be the big challenege, at 3/4" thick it will want to bend, the longer you go the more it wants to bend. I would go 66" long 2 1/2 at the fades and straight pyramid to 1/2" TIPS. Get the bow bending just a little bit and then weigh the bow. at the length I gave you about 26 oz is what you will be looking for so if it is just starting to flex a bit and the weight is around 29 oz or so you will probably be good at those demensions. Steve

[Orkraider]

Thanks very much for this info, Badger, it's very helpful and valuable to me.

One thing I'm not quite clear on, when you talk about it flexing in the handle with a 3/4 " board, are we both thinking that I'm going to be gluing on a handle piece?

It was my thought that I would be, the designs I've found so far all have a glued on handle piece.

Is it still going to most likely flex too much in this area, or are we talking about going without a glued on handle?

I'm asking for clarification, as having numbers from you to work with on this project are very very useful to me. I'm not even close to being able to make these calculations myself yet, so I'm really glad you're willing to chat about it. With what you're giving me to work with, I'm going to be buying wood today.

I can't wait til I can get me the boywers bible books. =)

[Badger]

Oak, if you glue on a handle piece and it flexes the handle will pop off. Thats the biggest problem with heavyweight bows from 3/4 stock. Steve