cherokee "D" bow questions

[straightarrow]

Hello I'm working on a very short 51" osage cherokee D bow. I didn't have enough stave to work with because of a huge knot. I was going to save it for a billet but decided to go for a short bow. The stave has awesome flat/thick latewood growth rings measuring about 3/16. I got it to floor tiller and then backed it with a layer of deer backstrap sinew and then a layer of thin deer rawhide.  I want to get as much draw as possible and I'm going to push the stave to the limit.

What are anyone's thoughts on a 27 " draw?? Is it achievable??

Also my tips are about 7/8" right now and most plans call for 3/4 to 1" tips. I'm thinking this will make the bow very sluggish? My thoughts were to taper the last 4" down to 1/2" and still make the diamond shaped tips. Does anyone have any suggestions

Thank You Jon

[half eye]

Never worked with Osage but I have made several 48" and 46" "D" bows in the Easter styles from ASH, ELM and most of them would draw 25-26 inches consistantly. So I would believe that backed Osage should be up to the task !!!!

It is really important to have that baby bending from one end to the other, so try to resist the temptation to thicken up the grip area more than JUST enough to have the power curve fade into the tips from the center of the bow's length (hope I said that right) but at the same time it still has to bend. As you shoot it in work your way up to the 27" from about 24-25 slowly and keep an eye on the "evenness" of the bend (curve) of the entire bow.

I never thinned out my limb tips too much and I don't know that idea is really necessary...maybe somebody else could give you advice on that part....anyway, mine did not seem to suffer from the tip shape.

Good luck on the bow, go slow and it ought to kick some serious .....butt.

[Hillbilly]

You're pushing the limits with most woods, but with osage, you'll probably be fine but you may have some stacking or finger pinch. And when you put that sinew on it, it's no longer a Cherokee-style bow. Now you can call it a Comanche or Kiowa D-bow.  

[straightarrow]

Well the bow is no longer backed........! My dog managed to strip away all the sinew. Hope she can go to the bathroom?? Anyhow to Hillbilly Is it a cherokee bow now.........LOL Seriously though......Did the cherokee back there bows???

[George Tsoukalas]

Nope. I don't think so. 24" if you do a good job tillering and if the bow bends in the handle. jawge

[ricktrojanowski]

Well the bow is no longer backed........! My dog managed to strip away all the sinew. Hope she can go to the bathroom?? Anyhow to Hillbilly Is it a cherokee bow now.........LOL Seriously though......Did the cherokee back there bows???

, Man that is funny.  Go for it unbacked and shoot for 26" draw.  I recently made a 52" unbacked Osage that draws 26".  It really stacks at that length but it's still together and it is the fastest bow I made so far.  I made it with 3/4" nocks.

[straightarrow]

Over the last two days I have begun to tiller the D bow. I decided to leave the bow unbacked. The picture is showing the bow tillered at 22"@53#. So far the bow has taken 1 1/4" of set and the string angle is 70 degrees. My draw is 27" and I don't know how much further I am going to tiller, but wherever I end up I want to be 55#. I started leaving the last 4 1/2" of the tips stiff when I got to 19". Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.



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[straightarrow]

Finished up tillering.......Not as much finger pinch as I thought there would be? My buddy measured me at full draw and I was under 26". I measure my draw on other bows and I am a little over 27. Can't figure that one out?? Any how I left the last 4 inches of the tips stiff to try and reduce string angle therefore reducing finger pinch. I hit the weight on the button and can't wait to shoot it now and put the finishing touches on it. Ended up with a 1 1/2 of set

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[half eye]

hey straightarrow,
          I built quite a few so called "D" bows and I believe your missing 1" or so of draw is because there is not that rigid handle to push against. Also notice that you sort of have to "palm" the bow I usually lose 1 to 2 inches of draw on my d bows (depending on how short they are). Just the old-guy's opinion, but that's how it works for me.
         By the way...very nice and classic D bow like them Frenchies said "Bois de Arc" (bow of the circle) looks very good!
half eye

[Parnell]

Wow, you've really got that thing bending.  It looks like it's gonna go in that full job!  It's amazing the wood can take it with only that much follow.

Nice work!

[Hillbilly]

Looks like it's doing fine, good job! Glad it survived the dog attack without major toothmarks. The only constructive criticism at all I would have is to say that on the next one, maybe get it bending a little more through the limbs and a little less in the handle, the bend more felt than seen throught the handle. Those simple d-bows are deceptively efficient and make good shooters. And no, I've never heard of a backed Cherokee bow. Most of them were that same design, except often longer, and usually made of black locust. It didn't take the western Cherokee who lived in Oklahoma after the removal to discover osage, though. The eastern Cherokee in western NC still make and use those locust d-bows.

[straightarrow]

Half eye, thanks for the response.........Losing that draw really had me scratching my head. I new there had to be a reason. Makes sense to me now

Thank You for the compliment Parnell

[straightarrow]

Thanks Hillbillly for the advice. Do think I should work on the tiller a bit more? Would I lose much wieght? I read that before about them discovering osage later. I wanted to make one from Black locust but I don't have any cut and dried. I have a fair amount of shagbark I can get my hands on. The osage I'm using has been drying for 11 years.

I want to decorate the bow. Is there any info you can give me on how or if they did that.

Jon

[Hillbilly]

I think I'd leave that one alone, it looks good and ready to shoot and I wouldn't want to mess with it any more. I've personally never really seen a historical example of a decorated Cherokee bow, but I bet some of them were.  There are many examples of painted/decorated bows from other Eastern Woodland tribes, and the Cherokee are too artistic in their other crafts for me to believe that none of them ever did some artwork on their bows.

[straightarrow]

I'm going to have my mom paint it. She is very artistic. So no matter how she does it will be Cherokee because she is more than I am LOL. Thanks again

Jon