Author Topic: Shooting Light Arrows  (Read 15713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mechslasher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,046
Shooting Light Arrows
« on: January 25, 2010, 10:19:37 pm »
don't know if this belongs here are arrows, but here goes.  there is a thread on the leatherwall where someone asked about hunting with light arrows.  i posted that i have heard and seen evidence of light arrows bouncing off ribs.  long story short, i was called crazy as hell.  i have skinned in the neighborhood of 700-1000 deer and found broadheads in ribs and other bones.  after about 20+ posts, i went to check out some stuff written by dr. ashby.  i feel safe in saying that he is the foremost expert on arrow performance and this is some of his experiences with light arrows:

"Three times I've seen arrows stopped on nearly broadside
shots by the entrance-side ribs of modest size pigs – with two
of those bouncing back. All three of those shots were with
high-poundage bows (the lightest-draw being a 65# compound),
but with poorly selected arrow setups. One PH I was co-guiding
with, Ben Bronkhorst, also had a client's arrow bounce back
from a warthog's rib. The arrow swapped ends and passed
between himself and the client. That was on a shot from 15
feet. The very light weight carbon arrow, from a 70# compound,
tipped with a light-weight multi-blade broadhead hit only a
rib on entrance. Total penetration, measured against the blood
and tissue on the broadhead was a mere 22 millimeters (0.87").
I've also seen arrows stopped by whitetail and impala
ribs, scapulas, shoulder bones, hip bones, leg bones and
spines. My collection of broadheads recovered by meat
processors from rifle killed deer is steadily growing. There's
no question that someone, somewhere is definitely having
penetration problems, even on whitetails!"

several are back peddling now and saying anything is possible.  all of a sudden, maybe i'm not crazy as hell.
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." 

G. Gordon Liddy

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 10:54:03 pm »
 On a hunting trip to Kentucky several years ago, one of the locals had shot a deer with his compound. My buddies little Dachsund trailed it for a mile and a half before he jumped the deer and ended up chewing it's hamstring, or back leg tendon. If that hadn't happened it would have got up and probally run another mile.
 
 We got it back to camp and skinned it for camp meat. When we went home they told us to take what was left with us, While I was cleaning and bagging the rest  I damn near cut my finger off. It had one of those, open on contact blades stuck part way through the scapula and I hit it with my finger. He was shooting light weight points and arrows and got about 2" of penetration.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Justin Snyder

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,794
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 12:19:19 am »
all of a sudden, maybe i'm not crazy as hell.
I don't know about that, you go hunting with Eddie don't you.

There is absolutely a point where the arrow becomes too light and will bounce off. I can reproduce this on a Styrofoam target in my back yard. The first bows I made for my kids were super light. If you shot the light arrows they bounced off. I could shoot one of my 500 grain arrows from the same bow and it would stick, provided I could lob it enough to hit the target.  ;)
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline Mechslasher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 08:41:26 am »
i've now had a couple of these fellows contact me to say that ashby only worked with large african game, but the above quote clearly says mid-size pig, whitetails, and other mid-size animals.  i guess ron "tater salad" white is right afteral, you can't cure stupid.
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." 

G. Gordon Liddy

Offline Hillbilly

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,248
  • I like tater tots.
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 11:11:23 am »
I'm a firm believer in heavy arrows for hunting. I'll take kinetic energy over speed any day.
Smoky Mountains, NC

NeolithicHillbilly@gmail.com

Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

Offline aznboi3644

  • Member
  • Posts: 802
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 02:28:55 pm »
yeah I was reading an article of some "bow hunting" magazine at Barnes and Noble.  It was all compound stuff.  But the main article was about arrow weight and FOC.  Talking about nowadays compound hunters are using very light around 300 grain arrows with their 300fps fancy bows just to get a flatter trajectory with no conscience of penetration and force.

I've shot a compound...its nothing fun to me...But who needs a flatter trajectory when all of the compound hunters I talk to never take a shot more than 20 yards???

Offline DanaM

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,211
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 02:40:18 pm »
At what point do you consider an arrow light, lets say in grains/ lb?
10g/lb seems to be some type of accepted norm so would anything less be considered light?
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline Mechslasher

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 08:09:38 pm »
i would say light is less than 9 g/p.  i had one gentleman suggest that it was perfectly ok to hunt big game with a 350gr arrow with 3" fletching.  he regularly takes 35-45 yard shots, he didn't say his success rate on these shots.  of course, when i saw a pic of one of his kills, i noticed a sight on his glass bow.  thought this was odd, at the least.
"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." 

G. Gordon Liddy

Offline Kegan

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,676
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 08:37:48 pm »
If a 40-45# bow will kill a deer, then let's assume that means with a 400-450 gr. arrow would about be the minimum. So the weight of your arrow is a better indication than just the bow weight, since the arrow can't really accept alot of excess energy, or else we'd all be shooting flight arrows at 200+ fps.

So going up against a scapula with a 350 gr arrow would be like trying to shoot through a shoulder with a 35# bow. And that's not something alot of people will look so kindly on ::)

My evil-shafted-arrows weigh in at 600 gr. so they would have the force of a 60# bow even though I'm shooting 70-80# at the moment. Which I can believe.

Offline DanaM

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,211
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 08:46:26 pm »
Last year I hunted with a 47#at 24" bow and was shooting 500+ grain arrows, the trajectory wasn't great but I felt they had the umph necessary to get the job done. Unfortunately in six weeks of bow hunting I only saw one deer and that was at 30+yards >:(
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline Justin Snyder

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,794
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 09:29:13 pm »
For hunting I don't take into account the g/p. I think anything under 400 is very light, but for those that shoot 40# that is 10GPP. I often shoot less than 9g/p because my bows are in the mid to high 60s and my arrows always seem to come in around 500 grains.
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Offline Coo-wah-chobee

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,503
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 09:37:04 pm »
........An simple equation. "would you rather get hit by a pencil going 250 fps or a telephone poll going 150fps ?" :o Ok to start a new discussion or is it argument....."does speed kill or kinetic energy ?" Personally I would rather take a 243 round than a 50/70. Discussion anyone ? Oops Chris didnt mean to hijack youre thread. ;)

Offline woodstick

  • Member
  • Posts: 899
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 10:06:26 pm »
you can take either one if im shooting i wont hit ya. ha ha. my hu7nting arrows are bout 540 grains my target arrows are now carbon bout 415 grains. heavy for hunting.
a drawn bow is a stick 9/10 broken

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 11:22:04 pm »
   I usually 3-D shoot with the arrows and bow I hunt with. Probally why my score is always low after 40 targets. I'm usually good on the 2,3,4, targets.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Re: Shooting Light Arrows
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2010, 02:11:36 am »
i guess ron "tater salad" white is right afteral, you can't cure stupid.

Nope You Can't Fix Stupid.... ;D...and Ron is from 20 miles away from Me....and He still Claims Fritch Texas as His Old Stompin Grounds... :P
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome