250 pounder attempt

[rudderbows]

I spoke with Marlon tonight about the 250 pounder. he had some very good info and insight about heavy bows from an archers perspective.  Seems a person who shoots a bow is under compression normall BUT  that is why when they shoot a seriously heavy bow there is allot more compression and issues arrise from it. . This means the archer has to reach out alot farther to push against the compression necissary for a full draw  at 30-31 32 33 etc. He explained it allot better than I am right now. . he thought that numbers around 200 maybe slightly more and maybe slightly less were just about what flesh and bone can take and not much more no matter how strong an archer was. never occured to mem that the muscles and bone joints had limitations like that from compression. .  I may end up shooting te 250 pounder from a mechanical device. Marlon was very gracious to start working up to a 200 pound Boo backed ipe bow I am going to attempt to build for him,. I would really love to see an arrow fly from a really big bow.

[RyanY]

I understand what he's saying but I don't think that drawing a 250# bow is in the realm of impossibility. I could be wrong but I'd like to find out more about the amount of force muscles and bone can take. If my memory is correct I believe that an average adult femur can withstand up to 2000# of force.
Also I understand if you leave me out rudderbows. 

[ChrisD]

I understand what he's saying but I don't think that drawing a 250# bow is in the realm of impossibility. I could be wrong but I'd like to find out more about the amount of force muscles and bone can take. If my memory is correct I believe that an average adult femur can withstand up to 2000# of force.
Also I understand if you leave me out rudderbows. 

True - but probably not relevant. Long bones are designed to take loads along their long axis and are strong that way but markedly weak when exposed to much smaller loads across the long axis - thats why they break in that situation. The issue with drawing bows really is one of leverage and force multiplication with the key question being 'what can the rotators of the shoulder handle at their points of insertion when drawing really heavy bows?'. These muscles arise from the scapula directly and that in turn is stabilised by muscles arising from the spinous processes of the vertebrae. Picture a shortish muscle rotating the proximal end of a long lever like the humerus and you get some idea of the mechanical disadvantage that these muscles are under. The forces at work drawing 40lb bows are said to be huge (I have them somewhere and I'll look them up). I very much suspect that Marlon is right in thinking that 200lb bows or so would provide in or about the physiological limit where the moorings of the tendon insertions would tear free from their bony anchor.

Chris

[RyanY]

That makes sense. I mean there has to be a limit eventually to what the body can take. I guess I'd need to see some information about it before I really truly believe that 200#'s is the limit but I also understand that I'm stubborn and really want to think the human body is capable of much more. I mean even though the mechanical forces around the rotator cuff are at a disadvantage wouldn't stresses of around 1000# for a bench press cause a failure for those muscles involved? I'm not saying you guy are wrong, in fact you're probably right, I just don't want to believe it. 

[rudderbows]

Ryan,  I fully intend on following through with sending a heavy duty bow to you. I appreciate your willingness to give it a try.  Between you and Marlon I am betting we will learn allot here.  I am already learning allot.

I understand what he's saying but I don't think that drawing a 250# bow is in the realm of impossibility. I could be wrong but I'd like to find out more about the amount of force muscles and bone can take. If my memory is correct I believe that an average adult femur can withstand up to 2000# of force.
Also I understand if you leave me out rudderbows. 

[RyanY]

Cool. Well this is all I've been thinking about for the past couple days so I'm really excited. Hopefully when I get home I can finish up that bow I was making and get started on something heavier that what I usually pull.

[heavybow]

The heavier the bow more compression factor increaseses. Infact the world record for bench is 715 raw. And the record for a bench useing a special suit shirt is 1105 it may be a slight higher. Due to a special suit.

[RyanY]

I see. So I'll just have to use something like that when I try. 

[heavybow]

Ryan you don't know me I'm very very strong I can bench press 500# raw. I shoulder press 325 for reps seated and behined the neck. I really think 200# bow will defeat me in all onestly. It takes a special huge strong human beyond my strength. So a 250# bow you would need a human well over  6 feet tall and weight 350 very very very strong pound for pound. There's a handfull of archers pulling there bodyweight  as jaro, Steve Stratton, Simon standly the smaller the person the stronger they are pound for pound. Than a person who weights 350#. Cheers  Marlon

[RyanY]

Alright alright. Well then I think for me this will turn into a test to see how much I can muster. I trust your word Marlon and I think if anything I'd just like to work up to the heaviest bow I can without injury. What is the heaviest bow you've pulled? I saw your youtube video of you pulling that 120# bow really easily.

[heavybow]

Ryan the most I pulled was a hill type longbow 180# @27" the bow was 67" long. I was going for the record. This was 12 years ago. The heard Chief Aj  pulled a 200# bow. I said forget it. He didn't pull. Mark has the record he truly pulled 200# warbow. I don't have the intention or motivation or suffient strength to break the record. I serious sure I won't make it to 200# if I'm lucky I might hit 185# still it's a long shot. Yes I feel old.

[markinengland]

Mark Stretton had to do a fair amount of training on a special rig to be able to pull the 200lb bow and he has had some injury problems since and this was after many years of pulling heavy warbows.

Making the bow will just be part of this. The training will be as much a part. Trying to go in way over the top at 25% over the record seems strange! Trying to match the record would be very difficult!

I can't see that a 1.5inch wide has any chance of reaching the desired weight. Would an 80 inch long 3/4 inch wide bow make 125lb? No. So how can two of them (a 1.5 inch wide bow) reach 250lb?

Mark in England

[heavybow]

Mark a warbow of 250# I would have to agree it would need to be longer than 80" I would say 82" to 86" I would hate to see it blow up it would kill some one.

[Marc St Louis]

Ryan the most I pulled was a hill type longbow 180# @27" the bow was 67" long. I was going for the record. This was 12 years ago. The heard Chief Aj  pulled a 200# bow. I said forget it. He didn't pull. Mark has the record he truly pulled 200# warbow. I don't have the intention or motivation or suffient strength to break the record. I serious sure I won't make it to 200# if I'm lucky I might hit 185# still it's a long shot. Yes I feel old.

Marlon
Wasn't that Bamboo backed Bubinga I built for you a few years ago about 175#?

[heavybow]

Mark yes it was very close to the weight. I pm you mark