Chasing my first osage rings here

[artcher1]

Chasing very, very thin hickory rings is good exercise. And with a dull draw knife to boot . Enjoy the experience.ART

[George Tsoukalas]

kirk, take a look at your last picture. Your active ring is probably the one in the foreground right in front of your tool. Is that correct? The other rings are visible as line going across the stave. Those are violations. The darker wood is the good growth the punky yellow rings are the early wood which is not good. If you make that ring in the foreground your back then you have to remove all the rings above it. Check to make sure you have enough wood to make a bow if you go down that far. You'll need an 1.5 in under that ring anyway. As you enter that punky lousy growth your d knife will chatter that's how you know. I'd go up along the right removing upper rings first, down the middle and up the left side. I'm alway looking on the right for my ring on the edge that way ifI make a mistake and cut through it won't matter because that will come out when you rough out the bow. Alternatively, Pat likes to chase one ring all the way down. Might be a good idea for you rather than rushing it like I do Gotta go. Questions welcomed. Jawge

[Kirkll]

Thanks a bunch to all of you guys for getting me off on the right foot. i'm an old carpenter that savvy's wood in many ways, but this is a whole new world here, and i'm looking forward to it. those last few posts from DMC, ridge runner, golfer, and George, really helped a lot.

so here we go.... i had a really hard time zooming in on those very thin rings, even with my glasses. i got the lighting real good and sanded the edges of each side of the stave so i could really study the ring thickness and uniformity all the way down the stave. i got some more photos here for you guys.

here are the ends.... i've got two arrows marking out my rings of choice. the first one in red is a pretty good ring all the way down about an 1/8" thick. there is one spot it thins down to a a heavy 1/16" i'm not real fond of, but i think it can be manageable if i'm careful in that area.



Now the pencil line i've put down the entire stave length has an excellent ring with 3/16" coming out of trhe fades evenly on both limbs. i believe this ring would be better, but it only leaves 1.5" at the grip.



if  i use the first usable ring that i haven't even started chasing, i'll have another 1/4" in thickness all the way leaving 1.75" at the grip. i'm kind of leaning towards that one. and call the thicker ring my "Go to " ring if the first one doesn't come out.








Here is a shot of the the back..... the very tip shows my first ring barely exposed marked in red on the end. i thing i'll get all the others down to the one i want, and call it practice... then i'll go for the last ring with more confidence.



So i have 4 rings to remove to get to the first good one and 6 to remove if i go down to the thicker one.....

unfortunately, i didn't have enough time to really get into it today as far as chasing rings. using that planer blade as a draw knife without handles didn't have enough control. So i stoped work on the stave and decided to cut one of them in half and make a draw knife and a push knife.  here's a few photos of my building them.  i got the pins epoxied in, and will finish em up tomorrow. that red oak should hold up well for handles....

[Michael C.]

I think I probably do it the hard way, but I don't usually lay out the bow until after I have all my rings down, because I can't tell where exactly I want to put my handle till I look at the grain and how the wood looks over all. From the ends of that looks like you have a good ring picked out and plenty wiggle room to work with, as long as that hammer is to scale Looks like near the tips it is about 1 1/8 or 1.5 wide, but my eyeballs lie to me all the time. I would have to say that you need to take off the 3 rings like others have said one at a time, just get up to the line near where you have your handle and take that one all the way to the other tip. Then get on that next line about 6-8" above it and proceed to the one about 1.5 above that and keep going till you get those off. You can decide at that point if the over all bow is going to be long enough to take off the tip where the last 2 rings are already cut through near your buffer in the pic or if you want that extra length to take the next two off before you get to the one you have marked. It's kind of blurry on the thinner lines, but if that is the opposite end of the photo in the vice ( the end that isn't near the buffer) you may be down to the one you want after you take the ones you've already cut through off. I would do like the rest of the guys have said and go slow and take one ring at a time, it will save you some cussing in the end Since this is your first bow there isn't any hurry and I know how excited you are to shoot it, but if you hurry you might end up breaking it once you start to bend it or get a lot less weight than you want. About how long is that stick and what draw length/weight are you looking for, I may have missed it, but I didn't notice it in your post.

Just remember it's not going to be the best bow you ever make, but it will be the most special and you'll do ok. My first one isn't tillered perfect and it's not the best lookin' bow, but I think it's still my favorite just because I had so much fun making it and it slung an arrow just fine. It doesn't matter how fast it goes it matters how excited you get about shooting it and you can't shoot a broken one

Looks like your well on your way though and that's a nice stick to start on for sure.

[Kirkll]

Thanks for the input Michael, i've got 65" of stave here, and would like 50# @ 28.5" or there abouts ....

i hunt with around 57-60 pounds, but prefer 50 for formstump shooting and 3D. i have a lot more fun with a lighter bow i can obsess with and shoot 300 arrows a day if i get the urge. i cant do that with the heavier bows and have fun at it.....It hurts too much the next day...

heY David, is the early growth, late growth different on hardwood trees that softwood?  i should know that one.  

i've always refered to it as winter/summer growth, and i've always thought the soft grain, which is typically lighter color and wider in a softwood tree grows in the summer, and the harder narrow grain was the winter growth rings....

could you guys set me straight here?  this softer crunchy wood on the osage is thiner than the hard grain. .... which one is the winter growth ring, and is that the early or late growth ring the way you guys term it?  i'm feeling kind of stupid here... i should know this stuff being a carpenter and all...

[Badger]

Kirk, the osage is dormant in the winter, the early growth is spring growth and is soft and porous compared to the late summer growth. Actually with osage the ratio is the important thing, you like to see about 70% summer growth. My opinion is that as long as you have a good ring on the belly and a good ring on the back you are in good shape. I don't worry too much about what's in the middle. Looking good so far Kirk. Steve

[DCM4]

You are on the right track Kirk.  Evidently I left 3 rings for you to chase, sorry for the confusion.  Plan on using the first fat ring, and have the next for a backup.  1 1/2" at the handle is perfect, fat of that you'll be taking off anyway.  But always leave yourself room for surprises if you can.  I don't think that stave has many knot or features such that which ring you pick will become an issue anyway.  Just get down to it without marking it if you can.

Plan on making your bow 60# @ 28".  You can always adjust it after you get it shot in.  Again, leaving room for surprises.  Also, your bow will draw 60# in this weather, I imagine the humidity in your shop is below 30% right now, and perhaps as low as 55# when it's 90 and 90% humidity this summer.  Nature of the beast.

Take your time buddy.  If it takes a week to get the first ring off end to end, so be it.  Time is the one ingredient you can pour into a project in abundance and do no harm whatsoever.  Doing nothing is a problem, but doing stuff slow always works in your favor.  We'll still be here if you don't get done until March... seriously, March.

Be thinking about a caul or method to straighten that stave.  I think I've posted picture of mine.  Looks very similar to a form for laying up glass.  You'll use it to clamp to, as you apply heat and correct portions of the stave.  I like to put about 2" of reflex into a stave before I start tillering, and then finish nearly straight or perhaps a smidge of reflex.  You can do it without a caul.  Just be thinking of how to hem it up while you correct and clamp it.  Up against a stiff plank with shims will work, bearing in mind we'll be shaping it in two planes (side to side and back to belly).

Have you got a "paint stripper" type heat gun?

We need that if possible.  We actually need it pretty much as requisite, and if you are gonna do many more selfbows it's an investment that will pay back many, many times it's cost.  I'd make it a top 3 in terms of tools one must have... at least to work with osage, vine maple and the misshapen stuff, even the perfect staves.  I thnk they are about $30 at the home center.

You and hegde on this other thread got my mind wandering to my own projects occasionally.  Thanks for that.  This passion has carried me for nearly a decade now, psychologically.  I'm almost embarassed to say it's as much a part of my nature, karma if you wiil, now as my family, hunting or nearly any other aspect of life.

[RidgeRunner]

Kirk:
Well, I for one feel much better now.  It looks like you are on the right track.
DCM4 is right.  Take your time.  It is OK to think about the smallest of things for a day or two.

To answere your question: 
Yes the ring structure in Hardwoods and Softwoods is different.  It can get quite complicated if taken too far.  People have written doctoral theses on the subject.  However, I have yet to need most of what little I ever knew about the subject.   

Comman Hardwoods are actually divided in to two major groups.
Ring Porous (ash, oak, Osage and hickory are a few in this category).  Big wide, easy to see rings.
Diffuse Porous (Birch, beech dogwood and rosewood are in this one). Small narrow, difficult to tell apart rings.

Softwoods. Which which are almost all evergreen, and are often harder that some hardwoods, are in a category by themselves and I know little about them.

There are all kinds tree species, and vareations among the same species of tree, that bend and break most all of the rules.

David
David

[Kirkll]

Thanks a bunch guys!

I am in no hurry to get this one done at all. i have many other projects in the works too. But i thought if i set up a work station in my shop i can leave it set up in a vise. i can work on it a bit each time i head out there while the shop iis warming up. i've got a wood stove out there and a large propane heater, but it takes a good hour to warm it up in there. 

Chasing rings on this hard wood is good exercise, and gets a guy warmed up good while the shop is heating up. I'm going to savor the journey work slow but steady on it, and see if i can do this stave justice..... i  have every intention of doing you proud David....

i do have a decent heat gun, a steamer, and enough clamps to put new gunnel's on a 16' drift boat. LOL..  so i'm good to go there. i've got tons of stuff for form materials here, and may just use an older fiber glass bow form i need to replace anyway. we'll see...

i'll keep after it guys, and post my progress as i go here....

[hedgeapple]

Kirk, I'm in the same boat, well maybe a smaller boat, since I lack some of your wood working skills.  Thanks for asking these questions.  I'm learning along with you.