Non-Primitive Bow Materials

[Dano]

If your looking to level the playing field by making another catagory in the BOM, it ain't gonna work. People only vote for their favorite, or purty presentation, it doesn't have a thing to do with tools, time, materials or creativity. I do agree tho, showcasing a bow made with stone tools is cool, been done a few times, but still cool.

[Swamp Bow]

If your looking to level the playing field by making another catagory in the BOM, it ain't gonna work. People only vote for their favorite, or purty presentation, it doesn't have a thing to do with tools, time, materials or creativity. I do agree tho, showcasing a bow made with stone tools is cool, been done a few times, but still cool.

Agreed, you will never take politics out of Washington.  At least those bows would compete on the same footing.  Well I've rambled enough.  Bottom line is if all of the bows are in the same category, I don't think using a modern adhesive should be penalized.  But if there would be a period only (not necessarily stone aged, could be medieval, NA etc.) class, then yes I think period glues or a reasonable facsimile would be appropriate.  That could be taken to extremes of course, not every one has access to wood X grown in Y part of the world, or the swimbladders of virgin sturgeon for making glue.  Got me where the line would be.

Swamp

[avcase]

Did someone mention up above that they were working on a bow backed with bronze?  I just have to see that one.  Where else would someone discuss such an idea as that but here?  It might even get my vote for laminate bow of the month!    If it wasn't for people trying things like that this hobby would get pretty monotonous in a hurry.  I am pretty sure that the primitive bowyer often saw it this same way.

Who knows?  Someday, an archeologist might discover a site with all these bronze leafs laying around and wonder what it could be?  Then, they'll see bronze backed bow of the month and it will make perfect sense. Hahahaha!

Generally, I agree with what Badger said except that I would substitute "natural material" for wood.
-Alan

[Shadow Walker]

The line would be "all natural" materials. The only time you would need to be concerned with what wood and glue to use would be if you you were doing an exact authentic replica (museum quality) of a specific type of bow.
I'm working on my own version of a horsebow right now. It won't be finished for a while yet, but I am going to keep it all natural. It'll be interesting to see what the results are.Maybe I'll "pretty it up"a bit. Nothing says an all natural bow can't be pretty right? Some of those replicas on the Atarn site are pretty elaborate!

[Badger]

One of the things that I do like about bow of the month is that there is no criteria. This can also be a curse. I like to think of it as accomplishment of the month. There are a few bowyers here I hold to a higher standard for instance. If a bow is made with stone tools I will always consider it closely but it still has to be well made. A bow made with stone tools can be as nice as a bow made with steel tools. I try to look very closely at first year bowyers for instance. ut each and every voter can set his own criteria. Steve

[Pappy]

Get out the pop corn. This comes up every year at least once and it is always interesting
to hear all the different views.
   Pappy

[makenzie71]

Did someone mention up above that they were working on a bow backed with bronze?

1/32" sheeting.  Glued and riveted to the lumber.

[mullet]

  I agree with Pappy, except it's not all the different views. It is usually the same ones, just a different name. If we had a different catagory for primitive, then next month when somebody that felt slighted, we'd have to have a "slighted" catagory. Where does it stop? All wood is ALL wood.
  And, Phenolic tip overlays does help with performance. It allows you to use Fastflight string without cutting the wood, when you could use horn or a harder wood.

[DCM4]

I think context matters.

In the context of BOM, it's a popularity contest so I don't get where performance is an issue.  I don't mean this as a criticism, and not like a "beauty contest" for the bowyer.  Rather a particular bow might be appealing to more voters for any number of reasons other than performance.  In fact the one bow I've made that I recall winning BOM looked really purty with walnut overlays and such and an nice symetrical tiller, but it actually doesn't shoot as well even as most of my other, considerably more humble or "ugly" projects.  I've always been amused by the irony of this.

In another context I think it's important for some to carve out a niche in this business to differentiate product, and pa and paleo try to draw a distinct line in what in reality is a shades of grey question.  There will always be a spectrum of intestest and experience.  It's probably more important to embrace the "big tent" than to further segregate an already small community.  After all, how much different is a bow designed by formula, by computer computation actually, created entirely by use of precision machine tooled lams and epoxy from a conventionally trial and error tillered simple composite w/ a strip of phelonic in the handle, for our purposes here.  Don't we value conventional methods, as well as materials, at least to some degree.

For what it's worth, I don't see the use of phelonic as having has any reason or purpose or justification other than aesthetics, and as such barring it from use in the context of PA and it's BOM as not being much of a burden.  If such a restriction, in particular retroactively, creates some inequity for one individual one time, then grant a waiver... or better yet just let the voting in BOM reconcile it's relative value or appeal.

[recurve shooter]

maby make a new class? all primative bow of the month? 

[makenzie71]

maby make a new class? all primative bow of the month? 

It's been mentioned a few times in this thread already.  I agree that it would be a great thing, but I also sadly agree that participation would be minimal...the staff is trying to keep the community closer together, not picked apart further.

On a completely unrelated note (I didn't want to start a whole new thread over such a small idea...feel free to ignore), I think it would be a great contest to check one's ingenuity.  Do a contest where people have to build a functioning bow made entirely from obscure things...like cardboard, or items you can only purchase at a 7/11.

[Justin Snyder]

It comes down to this, there isn't enough participation for a new category. All of you guys that want one need to make the bows. When we get 6 per month maybe we can justify. Ill bet nobody that wants the new category makes a bow like this this year. 

[dragonman]

It is quite interesting , disscusing primitive standards, what is and isn,t primitive on a computer, which is as unprimitive as it gets, so anyone involved isnt fanatic about primitive or even very primitive or they wouldnt be here!, balance and moderation in all things is my philosophy( just to throw in my bit),if the primitives had epoxy or fibreglass or any thing for that matter they would use what was easiest and worked best , guaranteed, So maybe the fibreglass guys are the true primitives, with their attitude of using what works best > A;so every thing is from the earth ultimately, just mixed up in different ways so it is even hard to draw the line where primitive ends, but I'm just trying to be clever, best to ignore me

[Jesse]

The functionality of said elements as apposed to the specified origin of the materials deployed in construction are of consequential importance. One might devise perimeters
based solely on the functionality acquired through employment of post industrial manifestations. The use of an alloy containing apparatus to aid in rapid tillerization appears to contradict the validity concerning the claim of primitivity.  One might acquire contempt towards otherwise seemingly acceptable methods and ingredients based on deliberation brought forth from respected piers and not rooted in ones own guidelines of acceptability. Any attempt to reconstruct the conditions in which our predecessors  acquired sustenance through production of weaponry might simply be summarized as game play. While lines ultimately must be drawn the game must remain desirable as not to discourage participation.
 JOKING!!!!!!!!
Sorry I was just messing around. I'm quite sure it makes no sense at all. I made up a few words as well. Hope you got a laugh
Like Pappy said. This comes up a lot and I'm sure I've chimed in enough on both sides. Gonna go get some popcorn now .       

[Badger]

Jesse,  I am sure glad you said you were kidding. I was starting to think that we were taking this thread way too serious LOL. Good one! Steve