sinew and titebond 3

[Shadow Walker]

Does it have a stronger bond than other carpenter glues? or am I best to stick with my hide glue?
I guess my main concern would be, is TB any good for laminations ?

[Pat B]

I've used it for backed bows with hickory or boo backs and osage, yew, ipe, black walnut and a few other belly woods and never had a glue failure. You will get a little glue creap though.

[Shadow Walker]

I think I'll give it a try. Can I get it at lowe's or Home Depot??

[Pat B]

You should be able to. I know they have it here.

[PatM]

Lowe's has it. So do specialty woodworking shops. TB 3 is said to not creep.

[Del the cat]

I tried it on a little Ash flat bow with recurved tips, it didn't seem too bad, but the bow broke across the back (one frosty morning on the tiller), I suspect I didn't have enough sinew on it, but the sinew looked dry and fibrous across the break. I found the TB3 seemed to dry out/thicken as it was being used.
Personally I wouldn't try it again, I'd go the natural route.
It's still a very good glue to have around.

Del

[Justin Snyder]

OK, you want to hear something really funny. Wood Working magazine tested the major brand glues for strength and water resistance. They submerged the glue joints in water for 24 hours. The TB3 joint failed at about 200 PSI. They pretend it similar to polyurethane glues, but they held up to nearly 1000 PSI. I know you guys aren't going to believe this, but you cannot believe everything you hear from the marketing department.  I have thrown bows with TB3 in the pool overnight to soak the glue joint apart, and I guarantee you they come apart.

Lets assume it is waterproof. Why would you use waterproof, or even water resistant glue to apply water soaked sinew? Seems like a problem waiting to happen. If the glue on the outside starts to cure while the sinew is wet, the moisture cannot escape.


When all is said and done, you will have to seal it anyway to keep moisture out so why worry about waterproofing before you waterproof. 

[Shadow Walker]

I probably wouldn't use it over sinew as a sealer, because as you pointed out, there may be moisture trapped in the sinew. But for some other applications it may be as good and maybe a little less fussing than using the hide glue. Perhaps for tip overlays and handles ect. As far as sealers go, I have been using Helsmans satin finish and it seems to work fine. It dries fairly quickly so it should be fine over top of sinew. I would still use the hide glue to apply the sinew though.

[Traxx]

Yew and Osage are the only decent bow woods.The ELB is the only efficient bow design.You cant make bows from Kiln dried Lumber.You cant back redoak with Bamboo.Any of these defenses,would not stand up in the Bowyers court today,but for a long time,that was the dogma accepted by the masses.This topic has turned into another one of em.Often when the subject comes up,and it has many times,it is replied to by many who have never done it,done it improperly or are just repeating the same dogma they have HEARD or READ somewhere else.Before we go condemning TB glues for sinew application,Maybe the ones really wanting to know,should consult those who have actually used it with success.People like Ed Scott,who has been mentioned as well as John Scyphers and Mark Baker.There are others as well.Juniper Junkie{Dave} obviuosly has had good results from it,and to the mans credit,has made a few in his day,even sinew backed bows with hide glue,so he can evaluate the differences.Most of the folks i know that have had good success with it,sought out more experienced advice,most often from Ed himself.

[mullet]

 I've sinewed a few bows with TB3. It works real good. The only thing you are doing though is protecting the back of the bow. So there is no reason to put a lot of layers on. You will get no shrinkage using TB like you do with hide glue. I use a warm bowl of water with TB3 diluted in it. I then soak my prepared strands of sinew in the solution. I apply it to the bow, smooth it out and pat down the excess moisture. When I work the bubbles out I put TB3 on my fingers while I smooth it out, soaking it with more glue.

  Like Justin said, it is not waterproof or IMO, not water resistant. I use it to put my stone points on with sinew. When I want to take them off I run warm water over them from the kitchen sink, a couple of wiggles and they pop loose, all slimey. I seal my bows with Spars Poly.

[Shadow Walker]

I don't believe anyone is saying that TB won't work for applying sinew. And I don't believe anyone is disputing the knowledge and quality of any acomplished boweyers. Everyone has their preference for one reason or another, and this thread is about obtaining more information, If any of these acomplished boweyers would like to post their opinion, they are most welcome. I'm quite sure they would all agree that either glue would work, they would simply have different properties and results.
I haven't  read any comments on here pertaining to the fact that they "know more".about it than anyone else does either. It is simply a debate in order to obtain more information, which is what this forum is supposed to be about. We are all free to read a different post if this one is agitating to anyone.I for one do not know everything about it, which is why I'm asking those who know more about it than I do. I simply asked if anyone could tell me the uses for TB, No-one said anything at all about Ed Scott or any other boweyer being wrong in their choices.

[shikari]

Nothing against TB2 or 3 I have used both but i think it is useless for sinewing,You want to sinew something use hide glue.

[sulphur]

The world has progressed thus far from lazy men looking for an easier way to do things.  I too am looking for that easy way, but i think in this case i will use the hide glue.  If i could i would go spend the money and take a week long class from Ed Scott.  that would be the bomb (as the kids say).  But for now i will use the Hide glue.  BTW, tite bond 3 is really awesome wood glue when used for its intended purpose.  I use it when making the few furniture pieces i make, and have used it on hickory backed bows several times with no failures.

[medicinewheel]

It's been a tricky discussion on an other thread, seems like if one says 'no tightbondIII for sinewing' it's being equaled with 'Ed Scott is a foul' ...or denying the holocaust (just to exaggerate it a little...)
See, I REALLY like what I have seen in the Ed Scott Video, and yes if I had a chance to follow that guy into his workshop for whatever stretch of time, I would! ...BUT I simply DO NOT BELIEVE, Ed glued that little sheephorn bow this anything else than the best hideglue he could get, or that thing would come apart!
I'm sure everybody would accept people like Lukas Novotny, Jaap Koppedrayer and Adan Karpowicz (have you seen Adam's book??) as being in that same bowyer's league than Ed Scott. Last year I had the fantastic experience of participating and translating in a daylong lecture about hornbow making held by Lukas Novotny over here in Germany; we were only 4 or 5 people, we really talked detailed, we inspected and shot some 10 or more hornbows of various kinds, finished bows as well as bows with the sinew laying open! These bows were some of the best bowyer's work that I ever held in my hands!!!
The question of TBIII came up, too, and I cannot repeat Lukas' opinion on that here, since it's really not in the family friendly corner.
I do not have enough personal experience with laying sinew for a final conclusion on the matter, but I believe that TBIII works, if the sinew is meant to protect the back, if the plan is to pull that back into a serious reflex, it'll be hideglue, hideglue or hideglue you can use.
JMO.

PS: I used TBIII to seal a snakeskin backing. When it got wet from rain, the surface started reacting RIGHT AWAY. It didn't come off, but it reacted.

[Granite Mtn]

I have made many bows using hide glue to sinew the bow.  When I tried to sinew an osage bow in my shop in Alaska the bow literally tore itself apart as the sinew dried.  At first i thought it was the wood, so I tried another stave with the same result.  The next one I did I tried to slow the moisture loss down with tape on the belly less cracking but another stave ruined.  I usually build about 10-20 bows a year and at least 4 will have sinew,  I only build in the winter and the winter air in my shop is very dry.  I tried the titebond 3 glue in desperation and had no checking or shakes form in the bows.  I am very pleased with the results using tb3 however I usually over reflex the bow prior to sinewing because I do not think the method pretensions the back the way hide glue does, I also have strong feelings that the dependability of a selfbow is one of its main attributes,  while performance falls further down the list.  If you live in a very dry climate and are having the same troubles I had give tb3 a go.  As far as laminating I think urac is a far better glue.