Questions questions questions...

[Tigdim]

Newbie here with some questions.

First, I have been doing some reading on this site and I am still trying to figure out the advantages/disadvantages of heartwoods vs. hardwoods? which is better? Just personal preference?  

Second, I want a bow that I can use for hunting 60-65 pound pull and If I remember correctly I have a 29in draw with 3 fingers anchoring my pointer finger in the corner of my mouth. (I had it checked on one of those long bows with a arrow that shows arrow length )  Here is where the question comes in.... how short can I go and not get any stacking with a flat bow?

I will only ask the two questions for now...  I am sure they will get me asking more.

Aaron

[Parnell]

Hi Tigdim and welcome.
You will help yourself to get a hold of Trad. Bowyer's Bible 1.  It offers a healthy view of bow design and performance that will really open your eyes.  I'm sure you understand, the longer the bow the less stacking.  Bows 62-64" seem to be the best median bows.  You can go shorter recurving tips but you'll probably want to keep it simple when learning.  With wood, it's heartwood vs. sapwood and hardwood vs. softwood (conifers from what I understand).  Softwoods have been used but the hardwoods are the business.  There is no set standard rule on whats best.  Things vary from wood to wood - but that is what makes the pursuit so interesting, so much to choose and learn from.  I've built about 13 working bows now.  Draw weights from 30 to 70 lbs.  Earlier on I thought the 65 lb. mark would be perfect for hunting.  Now I'm finding that 50-55 lbs. is plenty.  The important part is to have properly matched arrows for the bow weight.  Learn about grain and spine.  I've found that my 45 lb. bow with appropriate arrows shoots just as wickedly as 70 lbs.  Heavier bows and arrows would have more force, though.  Sorry if I've explained things you already know.  Keep it simple to start and don't get frustrated. 
Good luck!
Parnell

[Pat B]

Heartwood and hardwood are two different terminologies. Heartwood refers to the wood in the center of a log below the sapwood. On some woods like osage, locust, mulberry, black walnut, black cherry it is obvious. On other woods like ash, elm, hickory, etc it is not so obvious. In the woods like osage, locust and mulberry the heartwood is generally what you would use for a selfbow. On other woods like the black walnut, ash, hickory or elm the wood directly under the bark is used for the bow.
  Hardwood refers generally to any of the woods above and soft woods would be like pine, fir or spruce and generally these woods are not appropriate for bow making but usually are good to make arrows from.
  Under ideal conditions you can build a bow that is twice your draw length so for your 29" draw you could build your bow to 58". I would not recommend that length for a first time bow builder. Adding 10% to 20% to that (64" t0 68") would be better with the latter the best for a new bow builder. You can easily get 60# to 65# at any bow length you decide on but the shorter it is the more difficult it will be to achieve.
  Stacking is the result of the string angle hitting 90deg at full draw. You can reduce the stacking by slightly recurving the tips. This will reduce the string angle thus reducing the stacking.
  If you are new to this whole process, I would suggest you start out with a simple, light weight bow and learn proper tillering. Good tiller is more important than achieving a heavy draw weight. Once you get the tillering process worked out you can build bows of different lengths and draw weights.
  You have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. Ask as many questions as you have. I'm sure you will get all the help you need to help to achieve your first successful bow.
 By the way, Welcome to PA.

[aaron]

Heartwood is the center part of any tree, often a different color than the sapwood- which is the outer layers. In some woods, the sapwood is removed before making a bow (osage, black locust) while in others it can be left on (yew).some woods do not have heartwood/sapwood (like maple which is the same color throughout).
Hardwood is from a tree whose leaves fall off in winter- most bow woods are hardwoods.Not all hardwoods are hard, it's just a name (for example cottonwood).
Softwood is from a tree whose leaves or needles stay on all year such as pine . not all softwoods are soft it's just a name( for example yew).

All bows have a little stack and stack increases as bows get shorter. 66 inches is a good length which is low stack and consistent.

[Justin Snyder]

Hi Tigdim and welcome.
You will help yourself to get a hold of Trad. Bowyer's Bible 1.  It offers a healthy view of bow design and performance that will really open your eyes.  I'm sure you understand, the longer the bow the less stacking.  Bows 62-64" seem to be the best median bows.  You can go shorter recurving tips but you'll probably want to keep it simple when learning.  With wood, it's heartwood vs. sapwood and hardwood vs. softwood (conifers from what I understand).  Softwoods have been used but the hardwoods are the business.  There is no set standard rule on whats best.  Things vary from wood to wood - but that is what makes the pursuit so interesting, so much to choose and learn from.  I've built about 13 working bows now.  Draw weights from 30 to 70 lbs.  Earlier on I thought the 65 lb. mark would be perfect for hunting.  Now I'm finding that 50-55 lbs. is plenty.  The important part is to have properly matched arrows for the bow weight.  Learn about grain and spine.  I've found that my 45 lb. bow with appropriate arrows shoots just as wickedly as 70 lbs.  Heavier bows and arrows would have more force, though.  Sorry if I've explained things you already know.  Keep it simple to start and don't get frustrated. 
Good luck!
Parnell

Not much to add to that.  Justin

[radius]

i'm sure others will agree:  the type of wood you use depends on availability.  Me, i live where it's not hard to get pacific yew, so i've been working with that.  Last year, though, i order a slab of osage from pine hollow longbows (mike yancy) in arkansas (?) and made a whole buttload of bows from it and hickory backing. 

Based on your questions, i'm gonna hazard a guess that you are not a woodworker by trade.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to research the nature of wood, google "wood, wood properties, etc) to familiarize yourself with what woodworkers all need to know.  Then, when talking with a hardwood dealer, you'll know what it means to buy quarter sawn, rift sawn, whatever.

Me, this yew is still kinda green, so i'm on my way to a hardwood shop today, actually, to buy a piece, probably white ash.  Thanks for reminding me...

[Tigdim]

thanks for the responses guys... and the heartwood vs. hardwood was a typo caused by sleep deprivation. who would have thought the first week back a college would require this much work? Anyway you guys you were still able to answer the question I meant to ask. Thanks. Oak is readily available to me so it will most likely be my choice.

And as for the draw weight I am a fan of heavy arrows for more kinetic energy, but shoot ability will be first priority.

Thanks again guys... I will ask more questions when I don't have Calculus homework.

Aaron

 

[Parnell]

Ugh!  Calculus.  Been there and done that.  That was time consuming.  Guess you could always think about bows when doing curve differentials?  I don't even remember the terminology anymore.  I'm sure it would be applicable but why over-compute one of natures miracles.

[George Tsoukalas]

Welcome, Parnell. You got some great advice above. My sit emay help too. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[Justin Snyder]

Ugh!  Calculus.  Been there and done that.  That was time consuming.  Guess you could always think about bows when doing curve differentials?  I don't even remember the terminology anymore.  I'm sure it would be applicable but why over-compute one of natures miracles.

I'm taking calculus after 20 years away from school. I'm doing OK so far, but taking 5 classes sure is cutting into my bow making time. 

[Parnell]

5 classes is a full time job.  I'm thinkin of goin back myself for more grad school...ugh...

[Justin Snyder]

Oh, I have a full time job to go with it. 

[Tigdim]

Yea, School is a full time job... and I also work while going to school. That is why I am  not starting a bow right now... just not enough time for everything. I would rather go scouting than work on a bow in the one morning of free time I have had in the last 2 weeks. Oh and did I mention I am also helping my father with a small addition to his house when I am not at school, doing homework, or working...  If I am lucky I will get out deer hunting 5 times like last year.