Feathers make the world, or at least arrows, go 'round

[Kegan]

A little while ago I posted some of the new arrows I'm shooting. Among them were six or so overspined arrows with tall feathers. Being so "economically" made, I've enjoyed shooting them a great deal without the same fear of losing or breaking one; a fear that I always have when practicing with the carefully spined hunting shafts.

Anyway, the more I shoot them, the more I'm beginning to really get into them. So far I've shot them from several bows of varying weights and degrees of centershot with no problems (lighter bows need a little more cant- understandable, and for a hunter, perfectly acceptable).

The only downsides I can see to them are that they do drop a little more (about 3-6" more at fifty yards, and they seem to bottom rapidly at a little beyond sixty yards) and the extra whooshing. They seem at times to be a little less forgiving of shooting errors, but truth be told I'm not really sure.

They've gotten me to thinking about their versatility though, and I began to wonder how they'd work for hutning. Since most of my hunting is under 30 yards anyway, their little extra drop wouldn't pose as much of an issue as the noise and the possibility of poor flight with broadheads. So I tested one with a Zwickey and found it to fly perfectly. As for the noise, I remembered in The Witchery of Archery how Will and Maurice used full height goose wing feathers on their arrows with no issue (though they didn't take as many deer and other big game as they took birds). So, I figured they must work to some degree.

More than that, I could use one set of good, reliable hunting arrows from any of the bows we have on the rack and expect reliable accuracy. As an example of how well they work, I gave my brother my bow and arrows and told him to try my old shooting tab. He dropped three arrows into a three inch group at 22 yards.

I'm working on some new trade points, thanks to Little John's encouragement, and might see how some of these "quasi-primitive" arrows do for hunting. I'm just rather excited about the whole thing as I'd never really heard much about the potential of this sort of arrow- just stiff with slightly taller feathers (flu flus have always seemed to be disregarded as serious shooters). Sorry for the rant .

[billy]

HEy Kegan,

I've been working on making some stiff cane arrows for my bow.  I've been having some arrow flight problems with underspined anrrows, and I think their flexibility is to blame.  I've also heard that overspined arrows work better when using cane.  For whatever reason, I like the heavy, stiff arrows as well.  They'll punch clean thru a deer at close range, and I think the flu-flu's don't slow an arrow enough at hunting distances to make that big a difference.  they do make more noise, but maybe trimming your feathers a little lower and putting more of a twist in the feathers would help with accuracy and also lessen noise.  Just a thought.  I hope you have some luck with them this fall! 

[Little John]

Kegan, good luck on the trades and hope you like them. I am sure you will as they are just too cool not to like them, just a lot of trouble to make. As for cheap easy arrows I like matched P.O.C. shafts (well maybe not that cheap). I am not so sure about over spined being the ticket, it makes my arrows fly wide of the mark. I have some I have been shooting . They fly ok as far as wobbles go but just do not quite shoot where I am looking. Cane and bamboo are another story and I can shoot a 90# cane just fine where a 70# cedar is too stiff. Don't know why but the cane seems to be a different critter. Later      Kenneth

[Kegan]

Thanks guys

Little John, on these extra-heavy arrows I use extra tall feathers. Like flu flus, only fewer feathers and not quite as tall.

As for trades. I epoxied a test piece in and bound it with sinew. The sinew was fine, but the expoxy didn't hold. Any suggestions?

[Hillbilly]

Kegan, I like stiff arrows too. Cant the bow nearly horizontal. and they fly good.

[mullet]

Kegan, I shoot 70# splined arrows made from Tonkin out of my 55-60# bows. The arrows are 33" long with mostly 125 grn points.

[Little John]

Kegan, I dont know why your epoxy isn't holding as I don't think I have never had one turn loose. Make sure the trade point is clean. It takes a deep slot, for my point the slot is about 1 1/4" deep. The point has about 1/2" tang and the shaft extends well out onto the point, lots of gluing surface. Maybe your epoxy is no good? Again my trade point arrows are good for hundreds of shots and the shaft breaks first.  I am sure you will work it out.    Kenneth

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[Kegan]

I've no idea what it is. It's two-ton epoxy, but rfuses to bond to the clean blade. I just gave it a little wiggle by hand and the epoxy broke. Heck, one I split a practice dowel to try and as soon as i took the clamp off the pulling of the wood seperated the epoxy from the point!

The slot is deep, about 1 1/2". I've no idea what makes a good epoxy for this though?

[HFD60]

sounds like your epoxys no good, I used the cheap quick set epoxy from Ace Hardware to set mine. The first test one I shoot it into a hard wood stump and it didn't break the bond

[Kegan]

Sounds like I just need to do a little glue shopping then. Thanks guys!

[beardedhorse]

Kegan,  I hunt with bamboo arrows from a 62 lb sinew backed osage recurve and among the shafts are some over 700 grain is mass and a coouple inthe 100 pound plus spine.  They are capable of 3 inch groups at 20 yards and 8 inch diameter paper plate accuracy to 35 yards.  Tubular shafts can be stiff without the mass of a solid lumberized or shoot shaft.  Longer feather that are cut low steer Plains Indian arrows for hundreds of years but you'll get the sound of the barbs on the feather being drawnagainst the grain as you pull the string.  I think Mullet meant to say spine rather than spline.   The two terms have different meanings and are not interchangeable.  If the tolerances oon hafting your trade point is too close there is not enough epoxy in the joint.  If you wrap or cmalp the shaft too tightly around the tang of your trade point you can starve the joint.  Are you measuring the catalyst and the glue in equal parts and mixing thoroughly before applying?  Epoxy can expand somewhat to fill in gaps but can also break upon heavy impact.  Subjecting epoxy joints to heat over 150 degrees or so can may the bond hold up better in hot weather.  I practice a lot with my hunting arrows and change over to broadheads such as the Grizzly you pictured and practice with it was well right before elk season.  You can use a lot more wrapping of your tang.  I would recommend using genuine sinew and not the waxed nylon artificial sinew.  I'd use liqud  hide glue or hot hide glue mixed in with sawdust of the same species of wood as your arrow and then wrap with sinew.  Waterproof with pine pitch and dab some pitch on the leading edge of the arrow shaft where it feathers into the side of the trade point.  I doubt if the Indians who made or traded for points ever used epoxy.

[Kegan]

I used genuine sinew- that held. But you mention starving the joint- something that might be another cause too. I'll try a slightly less "pinching" joint and do another foreshaft.

As for feathers- you're saying that your longer, low cut feathers work as well as taller, 5" feathers for stabilizing extra-stiff arrows?

[Kegan]

I was really intrigued by Beardedhorses comment about his semi-Plains fletch, so I took an extra stiff birch and tried it out. The feathers are from a turkey's tail, 6 1/2" long and 1/2" tall and square. The shaft, after sandpaper tapering came in at 85-90#. Still pretty stiff. But, the arrow shoots beautifully. I mean BEAUTIFULLY. And it looks pretty nice too . As expected, there's much less noise and less speed loss.

I'll sand it off and put some finish on it and get some pictures. I still have to try it with a broadhead, but I think I'll send Kyle out with his 12 gauge to find some crow feathers for me (and maybe a turkey if he's so inclined ).

(I'm also trying a newly hafted trade. Seems stronger- hopefully I used enough glue on this one?)

I'd like to thank everyone for all their help and advice. I'm having a blast with all this