stone point trauma pics...

[Timo]

Number 2 was a spine shot. You know the results.The point suffered greatly.Never found the rest of it.(Looked hard for it too!) Heat treated burltington,1" wide. side notch. Hickory shaft, I think these were in the 700 grain range. 53 # selfbow. 18 yd shot.



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[Timo]

Number 3 was with a point that a freind made for me. Porcelinite I think? I hated the design and the edge worried me,but it worked.....Just not very well. 54 # witchdoctor recurve, 22 yd shot. Hickory shaft,again 700 grain.Penetration was minimal. 150 recovery, very poor blood trail.(I heard her fall). Can't remember the specs on the point,as I gave it back to him. 

Forgot to add that I can't remember if this point encountered bone or not. The point looked untouched after I pulled it from the deer.

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[Timo]

Number 4 was with another raw texas point. 53 # selfbow,hickory shaft again, upper loin area passing through the strenum and out between the front legs. the arrow remained in the deer. 100 yd recovery.Massive blood trail,but the point was lost from the arrow along the trail. here is a before pic. It is the black point 2nd from  left. It was thin and very sharp. Not sure about the width.

Number 5 was with the point on the far right.jeff city chert.same arrow group,same weight bow.another pass through and the point was lost along the trail. I just hate to loose points after shooting through a deer.I'm sure they must look unscathed? But dragging along through brush grabs the base and yanks the sinew and pitch loose I rekon?

 As for encountering bone?I can't remember on this one either. I was to danged happy to notice I guess?

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[mullet]

 Cool looking pictures, Tim.

[Hillbilly]

Tim, those are pretty much identical to the design I use for hunting points.

[hawkbow]

last springs tom,  picture agate point.. hit the tom right above the beard...point broke the sternum and came out the back of the bird.. he ran a short distance and expired.. point was intact and i used it again on a bunch of bunnies before it finally died... Hawk

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[Little John]

I also think that you would be handicaping your self by hunting big game with stone points. While anyone knows that they work it is just hard to think that they would work as well. I hunt mostly elk so I want maximum penetration and design my trade points to achieve it, my experience with stone is that they are fragile and break easily, I also know that damaged broadbeads severly limit penetration. Elk hide is tough and so are the bones, even ribs. I also know they are almost impossible to track with a poor blood trail. For me it is hard enough to get a good shot let alone a picture perfect one. For me the fish and game dept have made the decision for me, so at least that part is easy. If someone wants the additional challenge I am all for it but would never feel like the stone would perform like a good steel broadhead. The native americans gave up the stone points quickly when trade points became available.   Kenneth

[huntertrapper]

Kenneth im with you on that subject and im not saying i agree or disagree with any of the infromaton stated...im just reading the post,  but why did the natives give up stone for steel if it was the best material, was it because steel was easier to form into points or was it because it is truly better for hunting the large game? 

[Timo]

Hunt trap, I'd have to go with the easier part. We humans are kinda lazy? faster,quicker,easier? Culture demands it.

They left their steel trade points when rifles became available.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

nice pics shown so far

 i once believed that the only reason stone wasnt used today was b\c it is easier to manufacture steel points...which is true.  but  after shooting both myself, i have had lots more luck with steel then stone, by far  just like they gave up bows for guns.   its just more reliable.

[huntertrapper]

also they gave up bows for guns to better than survival for food and against enemy warriors and the whiteman and someone should ask that jay red hawk, who killed a buffalo with stone, what kinda point he used to kill that big beast with and what the death and damage was like...

[hawkbow]

i agree that the steel are easier to make , and they sure last longer than stone for shooting over and over.. i mostly use only steel nowdays, but in my youth stone was much cheaper and easier to come by so I used it.... i have found that the smaller trade points are deadly on deer, but three to one is a must for elk....Hawk

[Anaconda 12]

I have limited experience with killing deer with stone, having only taken three, but I have taken 76 to date with traditional gear, ie. longbow and steel heads, so I think that my experience is viable enough to place my opinion.  Billy made some heads for me to hunt with last fall and I was lucky enough to take three deer with them with my selfbow, I limited my shots to fifteen yards or less and you will have a hard time convincing me they do not work as well as the natives that used them for thousands of years.  I think from reading thru this topic that alot of people have had bad results either because improper arrow and bow tuning, or shot placement, which the two together create undesirable issues.  I am a raging lunatic about accuracy and the tuning of both my arrows and bows, Just ask Billy I think I drove him nuts trying to explain my way of both shooting and tuning.  I very rarely comment on this forum but do lurk here alot to see what everyone is up to, opinions are up to the individual, but I figured I would place mine as well and it won't be chagend anytime soon, stone heads work when in the RIGHT hands!  And to prove my point the next elk hunt I go on Billy is knapping me some heads for that hunt, if when I get them and they shoot fine and I have confidence in the setup, I have no reservations about using them to take elk.

[Ryano]

OK, so tell me why I shot both of these arrows into whitetail doe's last year slightly quartering away shot 15 yards or less angling forward into the vitals got what appeared to be great penetration and had absolutely no blood trail to follow? The points are obsidian. They were thin and sharp, shot placement was good.....arrows weighed 550 grains and flew like darts....There's no doubt in my mind that I killed both of these deer but I was unable to recover either of them. Looked for two days both times, even took the dog out with me. No blood, none. I made almost the exact same shot later in the year on a pope and young buck with the same bow and a wooden arrow with a steel point. He traveled less than a hundred yards and was recovered and left a followable blood trail even in the rain. I just don't get it. None of you were there so don't tell me it was poor shot placement, I saw where the arrow hit both times. OH, and the heads were about 7/8" wide right at our states minimum width requirement.

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[Hillbilly]

Ryan, hard to tell from a pic, but it looks like those points could use a little bit more edge work. I like to pick those deltas off so the edge is smooth and perfectly straight, then go over it with a really tiny sharp flaker and micro-serrate the whole edge. I've left a pretty heavy blood trail myself from the knapping pit to the medicine cabinet a few times after being careless with the edges of points while sharpening them. I usually carry a little sharp flaker with me and touch them up as needed.