Black Walnut arrow footings?

[Muina]

Hey guys. I just made some footed arrows with Ipe footings on Ash shafts (just to try it out) and the Ipe's started to lift off the Ash. I had the same problem when I was using it for bows but I don't want to use the expensive resorcinol glue just for arrows.

The only other dark hardwoods I can easily get hold of are:

Utile Sipo (a really light (weight) and brittle mahogany)
Sapele (almost exactly the same as Utile)
Black Walnut (apparently very similar to Cherry)

Now I've seen quite a lot of people using walnut as arrow footings, and it's always a dark walnut. I know the normal Walnut colour here in England is a very light, almost Birchy colour.

So I suppose the question I'm asking is this:

Is the black walnut the same thing I've seen so many others using or is it a different type of Walnut altogether?

Thanks so much for any help.

Muina

[madcrow]

I had some english walnut that was about the same color as birch.  The black walnut I use has really dark heartwood and the sapwood has more of a grey tinit to it.

[Hillbilly]

Yeah, the black walnut is a different species from English walnut. It is similar to ipe in color, but not as heavy.

[mullet]

  Have you tried to degrease your Ipe? Wash it in dish detergent or wipe it down with acetone, alcohol or something similar. I've never had a problem gluing it with TB3 or Epoxy.

[Muina]

I let the Ipe stand in a cup of methylated spirits for around 5 minutes for each footing so I don't know what went wrong. One of the footings did hold up but I'm a little scared to use it in case the footing suddenly comes off and into my hand or something.

I'll get some of this Black Walnut in that case, it is really expensive but I suppose you're getting hundreds of footings from each board (the smallest size I can get it in is 1"x4"x8'!).

Thanks so much for all your help

Muina

[Muina]

Got the Walnut, it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It'll go absolutely perfectly with the Ash, I reckon if I ever go hunting with them I'll never miss because the animals will be drawn towards them in awe 

Actually, before I go I need a bit of advice about my bandsaw blade... when I cut the slots in the footings the cut is nowhere near smooth, and this is reflected on the arrow by the edges of the footing's taper being wavy.

I've researched resaw blades but is this the sort of thing I need to be looking for? Or do I need a different tooth pattern on the blade?

Thanks

Muina

[Hillbilly]

A wider blade would probably help-at least 1/2."

[markinengland]

Muina,
Nice to see another Brit posting.
All the walnut I have ever seen including English has had brown heartwood.
Resprcinol works good with Ipe and Extraphen isn't really very expensive.
Using some Ipe dust mixed in with the glue may help hide any rough saw cuts. Is it the course teeth or wobble in the blade that is making the cut rough? There are some good sites on the internet on resawing and setting up a bandsaw to cut straight.
Mark in England

[Muina]

Hi Mark,  us Brits are a rare breed on these sites, it's good to know I'm not the only one!   

The resorcinol I'm using is called Cascophen Polyproof I think, made by the same people that did Cascomite which English bowyers apparently swore by for decades.

I'm guessing it's the coarse blade that's making the rough cut, although it may be wobble caused by the coarse blade (due to the wide tooth set). I found a book in my dad's bookcase called 'The Bandsaw Book' and it states that the blade the author uses for resawing with a smooth cut is a "carbide-tipped, 2/3 pitch, variable tooth" blade. I went to the only place I know of that might sell those blades but their suppliers don't make them.

If anyone knows of anywhere that sells them it would be so helpful but at the moment I'm looking into the 'Wood Slicer' blade at Highland Woodworking. If anyone's used it, is it as smooth as they say?

I've read that if you rip hardwood veneers with the wood slicer you hardly need to sand it at all, and that's if you're wanting a touch-smooth surface.

Thanks

Muina

[Muina]

I finally had the brilliant idea to add a picture of the problem



You can clearly see the bumps caused by the tooth set, luckily the resintite glue I'm using is gap filling so they're not really a problem but I'm looking to start selling arrows along with my bows so I can't afford to have this sort of aesthetic defect. I also don't want to invest in a router footing jig unless I absolutely have to simply because they're so expensive and if I can find a way to get that smoothness with a bandsaw it'd be completely obsolete.

[markinengland]

When I have done footings I have used a block plane for the shaft itself which leave s avery flat smooth finish. A saw cut up the footing and reasonably well matched glue colour comes out looking good.
My bandsaw is about the smallest cheapest one available and gives me acceptable results.
Mark in England

[Muina]

I use Sam Harper's method of footing arrows, using a belt sander to shape the wedge and a bandsaw to cut the slot (There's a video somewhere on Youtube, just search "How I make my arrows" and look for Sam).

When I used the metal cutting blade on my latest attempt they didn't look as bad once they were rounded off. But you can still certainly see a little bit of the rough cut. I'm thinking if I maybe do the same thing as I do with my self nocks and finish it off with a small flat file or a diamond coated hacksaw blade they'll be a lot smoother.

But firstly I'm going to do a little experiment with my old Titan bandsaw (just so I don't risk damaging my monstrous Metabo ), if I grind down the set slightly on the blade it could make for a smoother cut because there's more of an edge cutting the wood.

Like I say though, just an experiment. I'll see if I can get a couple of pictures up once I'm done with it, my camera's charging at the moment.

Thanks for all your help.

Muina

[Muina]

Ok, I just had a reply on Youtube about achieving a smoother cut. Apparently this guy does exactly what I was going to try to get a much smoother cut.

He puts a sharpening stone on the side of the bandsaw blade while it's running and also rounds of the back to reduce wear on the bandsaw.

I haven't actually been able to try this yet because my little Titan bandsaw's completely bust (I never trusted it really) but now I know it's ok to do I'll be doing it on my big bandsaw.

I'll post about the results very soon.

Muina

[Muina]

I did it, admittedly i did it a bit too much and blunted the blade but the results were absolutely incredible! let's just say that if I ripped a veneer off with that surface finish it'd need aboslutely zero sanding, absolutely glass smooth!

The pictures I took looked no different from each other, but I really am surprised by this.

So now I've just gotta get used to doin it the right amount without blunting the blade... could take a while

Thanks for everyone's help in this, I hope there's some information locked in one of these posts that'll help everyone else, it helped me.

Muina