Wood bows, a little food for thought!

[Pat B]

So, you are a first time wood bow builder or are a relatively new to wood bow building...here are a few things to think about before you start!
 1) each type of wood has a particular design that works best for it as a selfbow.
 2) each stave will also have a particular design that works best for it as a selfbow.
 3) each piece of wood will have a particular design that will work best for it as a selfbow.
 4) each bow builder will have a particular selfbow design that works best for them.
 5) each bow design has a particular length that works for it as a selfbow.
 6)...and each draw length has a bow design that works best for that length.
Any or all of these may have more than one design or style or type but all should be considered before you make your decision about what you are going to build in the selfbow category.

  If you are interested in building a board bow your considerations will be similar but there are also differences. Like with glass lam bows, wood lam bows are engineered before assembly for the optimum end product. Your back, core(s) and belly each has it's own considerations as to the stress properties they each posses for their particular job in the bow...
 1)what is the best backing wood to consider for your particular belly wood, but also the design you intend to use?
 2)what is the best belly wood for the backing you have chosen, but also the design you intend to use?
 3) what is the best grain configuration for the belly wood used but also the design, draw weight and draw length used?
 4) what would be your best core wood, considering the backing and belly woods, but also design.
 5) what is the best grain configuration for the backing you intend to use? If you plan to use bamboo, the grain isn't a particular concern.
 6) if you do choose boo for a backing, will your belly wood, core wood, design and length support the boo backing?

   I have noticed that lots more folks are getting interested in building wood bows; whether they are selfbows, backed wood bows or all wood lam bows. I have also noticed that lot's of these folks have already decided what they want to build before acquiring their materials. To me, this is backwards when working with wood bows.

   With a glass bow recipe you can decide what you want and then obtain the materials to make that bow. Generally, the wood you use will be primarily for cosmetic reasons but also as a gluing surface for your construction and many wood species and grain configurations will work.
   With wood bow construction I believe you acquire your stave(or board) first and fit the design to the particular piece of wood, species of wood, grain configuration, draw weight, draw length, intended use and any particulars you may have as a shooter.

   A good source of information about these considerations can be found in the TBB series of books. The "Design and Performance" section of both TBBI and the update in TBBIV will give you lots to consider...and sites like George's, Mickey's, and others will give you proven techniques that  have many hours of experimentation, with successes and failures, that will get you closer to your new, self built wood bow. It is up to you to do your research but all of the info is out there for the taking. Added to all of this are sites like here on Primitive Archer, TradGang, Paleoplanet, etc where you can ask questions and get helpful criticism, suggestions and also see what others have done, to get you closer to a successful self built wood bow. Today, new wood bow builders and wannabes have the best wood bow builders in the world at their fingertips unlike when I and many others got started. Take advantage of these resources and follow a few suggestions from folks that know and you will have a better chance of success. Not all suggestions work for all situations and you may have to do a bit of experimentation yourself but please share the results with others. That is what it is all about!
   I'm sure I missed a few things so any and all updates and suggestions are welcome.
Just because it is simple doesn't mean it is easy!  Who would have thunk building wood bows could be so complicated!

[DanaM]

Good post Pat Think I would add before "Before Beginning your first bow: Do your homework first"

[Timo]

That is a good post. The problem lies  with impatience. Common Joe sees a selfbow/boardbow. he wants one....Gets on the net,does a search and bam, transported into places that seem to give them the thought that instant gratification will be theirs  . They forgo the "search" feature that every site has. 

The ones that do use the search and look around before asking, are the ones that usually turn out nice bows and stay around a while.

[DCM]

Well I think folks runs a broad spectrum.  Some will have some inherent abilities, insight based upon their life experience.  Some will be bull-n-china shop for a short spell and move on to other interests.  Others, perhaps the worst affliction, will sit and ponder and stew and fuss and study and ask and still not ever hit a lick, for fear of failure.  Perfectly understandable, but the kiss of death if you want success in the craft.  I'm firmly of the opinion one is ill served by their successes, and frequently regard too casually their failures.  Not that one should be distraught over failures.  Quite the opposite.  Use them to learn where, why, how.  More often than not, in hindsight the failure will become clear and obvious, and you'll leverage that insight into the next project.  In this way a bowyer is built, one failure at a time.  LOL

As much as anything I think the passion, the motivation or inspiration is what fuels the better bowyers ultimately.  When I was coming up, and still even, I simply have a rabid appetite for all things bowyerin'.  I get up in the morning thinkin bout it, and same in the evening time.  And to be honest, I think it runs deep in our psyche, like instinct, like watching fire.  There's something more there, that quickens the pulse to see an bent limb, or any artifact really.

[Eric Krewson]

I held two bow bees at my house. At the first I had about 8 wannabe bowyers. After I showed them the ropes and handed them a piece of wood to work on every one of them backed off commenting" I might mess it up or I don't have the patience". I tried another of the same type of gathering one more time, same result.

The most common failing of first time bowmakers is reaching for a tool that cuts faster. I have seen a bunch of bows ruined on a belt sander and bandsaw by guys looking for a short cut.  I did several in on a bandsaw myself in my early days.

[Hillbilly]

Good post, Pat. Eric, you mean you can ruin a stave on a bandsaw...  Glad that never happened to me.....   

[sailordad]

Good post, Pat. Eric, you mean you can ruin a stave on a bandsaw...  Glad that never happened to me.....   

i am going to find out today

[Pat B]

Lately, I have seen quite a few guys that want to build a bow. That's a good thing!  But, the first one they want to build is a high performance, R/D, bamboo backed bow with a jatoba(whatever) belly, Pierce points in the riser, that they can bare shaft their csx carbons at 200fps so they are assured that their single bevel broadhead with the tonto tip will completely pass through the Asian water buffalo that they persue in their rural hunting area. ...but they don't have the time to build a simple selfbow or board bow to learn the process.  Hopefully they will read this, and the comments from you guys and others that have done some of this bowyery stuff.
   I spent many years screwing up good bow wood because I had to rely on myself for info. Then a few books and magazines started coming out with authors like Jay Massey, Paul Comstock, Jim Hamm and others that opened more doors for me...but it wasn't until I got a computer and found Primitive Archer and then TradGang, where I could see other folks bows and discuss their methods, that my bows became more than just bent sticks.
  A bow is a simple machine...a stick with a shorter string attaching both of it's ends, forming a spring. That spring can be improved with a few refinements but it will propel an arrow in its simplest form. You have to crawl before you learn to walk!...and much of wood bow building is crawling. In today's fast paced world with everything crumbling around us, the easy pace of wood bow building is refreshing. A place to get away from the whirlwind of today's lifestyle and immerse yourself in the tranquility of a simple and ancient art form.
  

[Kegan]

Lately, I have seen quite a few guys that want to build a bow. That's a good thing!  But, the first one they want to build is a high performance, R/D, bamboo backed bow with a jatoba(whatever) belly, Pierce points in the riser, that they can bare shaft their csx carbons at 200fps so they are assured that their single bevel broadhead with the tonto tip will completely pass through the Asian water buffalo that they persue in their rural hunting area. ...but they don't have the time to build a simple selfbow or board bow to learn the process.  Hopefully they will read this, and the comments from you guys and others that have done some of this bowyery stuff.
   I spent many years screwing up good bow wood because I had to rely on myself for info. Then a few books and magazines started coming out with authors like Jay Massey, Paul Comstock, Jim Hamm and others that opened more doors for me...but it wasn't until I got a computer and found Primitive Archer and then TradGang, where I could see other folks bows and discuss their methods, that my bows became more than just bent sticks.
  A bow is a simple machine...a stick with a shorter string attaching both of it's ends, forming a spring. That spring can be improved with a few refinements but it will propel an arrow in its simplest form. You have to crawl before you learn to walk!...and much of wood bow building is crawling. In today's fast paced world with everything crumbling around us, the easy pace of wood bow building is refreshing. A place to get away from the whirlwind of today's lifestyle and immerse yourself in the tranquility of a simple and ancient art form.
  

I say let them try. Not every type of archery is suited for every individual. If a person watns to go out and make their super bow like that on the first try, let them. After they fail and immediately blame the wooden bow that didn't meet their expectations, they can go try fiberglass and carbon or hire a custom bowyer. Just because people get a notion in their head doesn't mean they even know what they want .

Great posts Pat. Definately should be stickied to the top !

[George Tsoukalas]

Such a good thread, Pat. Such great insights from such great bowyers. DCM, I agree. I just lived and breathed making bows when I first started. I'm slowing down now. I seem to find making arrows relaxing now. I had to work so hard at learning bowyering. There were not that many books when I started and the books seemed to be lacking some things but they sufficed in their totality. I learned by breaking and working some pretty flawed staves. But I learned a lot from those early failures. It's better now with the internet and all the books. I also Had Bow Holzhauser from Silver Arrow Archery to pick me up and dust me off when I bounced a bow or  2 off my head. Best osage bowyer or any wood bowyer I've ever seen. Bar none and I mean none. It's much easier to make a bow these days. But this constant reliance on heat to remove every characteristic that makes wooden bows so attractive leaves me scratching my head. To each his/her own. Jawge

[Timo]

You guys should see my first one.....Might as well strung a 2x4. But it shoots! I just don't have any fillings left!

[DanaM]

You guys should see my first one.....Might as well strung a 2x4. But it shoots! I just don't have any fillings left!

Timo my first hangs in my shop as a constant reminder to me   I think it pulls about 8lbs is ugly as all hell but to me its a beauty

[bigcountry]

I am still a newbie.  I haven't gave up.  I have had 2 failures out of 4.  Actually 3 because I am not done with 4 yet. 

To the guys like Pat, and others.  I don't take for granted the info I get on here, and trad gang.  I know you guys probably get bored answering same questions.  But just want to let you know, I for one sincerely appreciate your advise.  I know you don't have to do it.  I bet you have no idea how much you alone are keeping these skills alive.

I see young bowyers at two speeds.  Flying thru wood with fastest tools available, or dead stop scared they will mess up.  I have been at both speeds and hope one day to find happy median. 

[Hillbilly]

Tim, at least my first one is really easy to string-it's stuck at half-draw.   One thing I see a lot is new bowyers setting themselves up for likely failure by insisting on building bows that are way too short. I'm not an accomplished bowyer by any means, but I've made quite a few that stayed in one piece and learned a few things from y'all along the way- and I wouldn't try to build a 52" red oak board bow and expect it to stay together.

[Pat B]

The reason I bring these things up is not to criticize the new guys out there but to try to get them to think about what they are doing before they jump in. I enjoy building wood bows and I enjoy helping others to achieve this. I never get bored giving out info, that I have acquired over years of experimentation, to anyone that is willing to at least listen to it even though they may take a different route. I don't expect anyone to take what I say as gospel but only to consider it as my experiences. There are guys out there that have the Midas touch and end up with a first bow that many of us would be satisfied with as our best. I'm not trying to change the way they do things and would have no problem asking their opinion as to their methods.
 Jesse, I saw your bow  last year at the Classic and was very impressed with not only the workmanship but the performance. I don't know where that bow sits in your line of bows but I consider you an exception to the rule.
 And Bigcountry is a good example of the new bowyer that is willing to listen and put his best foot forward even though he is batting 50%. I consider you an exception also. You are willing to take the info presented and give it a shot. Like I said in another thread, I do think you are over thinking the process but that is your method and style. In my opinion the fact that you are willing to listen and try is a big plus in your favor.
 By the way, George's first 14 wood bows could be considered failures(that's George's decision to make) and look at George's bows and the quantity of bow building experiences and info that he shares with all that are not only willing to read his site but practice what George has offered.
  The cool thing about wood bows is that every bow is different, every method of achieving that goal is as different as the people using them. There are a few set "rules" that are tried and true that will help the new guy eventually make a successful wood bow. This is the point I am trying to get across; take the info that is available and add it to your abilities and your style and see where it takes you. If that isn't necessarily successful try a different route to achieve your goal.
   What I love about having the internet and these archery sites is the diversity of ideas and info that is available to me. I have read, thought about and used ideas from guys that have never built a wood bow as well as guys that are highly successful and very talented in wood bow building. It is the willingness to listen to others and come to a personal conclusion that I am trying to get folks to think about. Not following the crowd to the "perfect" goal.
  I am satisfied with my abilities to build wood bows but I am also willing to listen to someone else and change my methods when I see theirs may be a better choice than what I already know. I see lots of discouraged folks that have put the bar too high to begin instead of working up to that bar. If you learn anything  from your "failure" then, in my opinion, it is not a failure but part of the learning experience.
.....and so ends my caffeine driven Sunday morning sermon.