thanks guys
Timo- thats funny isnt it? never heard that myself but its good to know. all mine are from saplings, although they are very close ringed old trees for what they are. a 20-30 year old tree around here sometimes will still be a sapling size. i have on on the side of myhouse that is 30 years old and its only as big around as a thin baseball bat. the sandy soil around here just doesnt let them get very big i think. one 20 feet tall is big around here.