Author Topic: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon  (Read 58174 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cawkazn

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2009, 04:49:26 pm »
i knew this would happen, being the dog expert that you are you could tell me. I used to work with dogs for a living. Theres a video on youtube of one of these dogs killing 2 wolves. now as for one taking on a whole pack of course not strenth in numbers. but usually a pack of wolfes will decide not to bother with the hassle and its not like you cant have more than one dog. Do some research on this if you dont believe me, molosserdogs.com is a good start. anyways the point being, dogs were bred specificially for this purpose, and if you have 2 or 3 of the right dogs, wolves shouldnt be much of a problem.

http://molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5620


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bpg.sytes.net/nagazi/images/Image/Other/Caucasian_Ovcharka_sheep_killed_wolf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bpg.sytes.net/nagazi/default.asp%3Fbpgpid%3D26%26pg%3D1&usg=__m9smZZdl2pdupuEcAu4Et6QlgN0=&h=472&w=549&sz=79&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=SXG56RY3JdDCfM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVolkodav%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

dog killing 2 wolves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=3170gvlnPwU&feature=related




Offline hawkbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,051
    • High Country Archer
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2009, 06:11:33 pm »
Wow I guess you are an expert.. :o  why don't you come and get some of the wolves In my backyard and keep them in yours.. then you can tell the rest of the world how cool they are..Hawk
IT IS BETTER TO LOSE WITH HONOR. THAN TO WIN THROUGH DECEPTION...


Mike "Hawk" Huston

Offline DanaM

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,211
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2009, 07:48:13 pm »
I've got the cure for wolves, its sitting in the gun cabinet ;D A good wolf is a dead wolf, not a politically correct statement but non the less its pretty much how I feel.

Just curious cawkazn but where do you live? Would it happen to be somewhere that wolves roam?
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline cawkazn

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2009, 01:24:49 am »
nope, but i know enough about dogs to know which breeds are capable of taking one out. repeat one, not a pack. and like i siad before its not like you cant have more than one dog. yes wolves are very strong and capapble of killing dogs, even the dogs i mentioned here. and it happens, but again thats what the dogs were bred for and if you had a couple of them, most wolves would probably decide not to go through all of the trouble, unless they had a large pack. did you guys bother clicking any of the links? im guessing not. also, if a dogo can take out a puma, it should be able to take out a wolf.

re-read your statement from earlier, and I agree. a siberian husky and a german shepherd stand no chance against a wolf. which is why they were killed like you said. and even a 185 lbs dog by itself, but trust me there are some bad ass dogs out there capable of getting the job done.

if its 1 dog vs several wolves, it will probably end up something like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=fAoszVLRP6U&NR=1

heres the better vid of the dogo argentino against the puma, now you cant tell me that you dont think one of these guys would give a wolf a run for its money? click the 2nd one down, titled: dogo ve puma
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=dogo+vs+puma&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 01:38:31 am by cawkazn »

Offline Traxx

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,018
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2009, 02:30:08 am »
And there lies the problem.Yer gonna hafta have a pack of those dogs to keep the wolves at bay.The wolves in this country,are running in large packs.Thats what happens when they are turned loose,with no predators and laws to keep management from happening.Im not gonna type out a bio of myself or my qualifications,but will say,that my experience with wolves,is enough to know without a doubt,that they are infact,the most efficient killing machines out there.Take away a management plan,of checks and balances,and things will become one sided.Without permitted management and hunting,to balance their numbers,they will become an increaseing problem,just like the Black bears in Ca and Nj and the mountain lion in Ca.Soon,they loose respect of humans and become severely dangerous.This is a new day and time.Rampant wolf populations,and Modern Man,CANNOT co exist ,Period!!Anybody who thinks differently,is liveing in Disneyworld,and needs a serious reality check.Incidently,there have been severall,who were formerly,against wolf delisting,that have seen the evidence,and have changed their minds.Even tourist,in Yellowstone are seeing the difference,and in some cases,have seen firsthand,that Natures Reality,is not what they thought it was.Unfortuneately,by the time,the court cases and red tape are passed,it may be too late.the damage may be done,to the point of not being able to rectify it for some time,or in some cases,ever.For some involved,thats exactly as they have it planned.They will Sacrifice,herd numbers and health,of some species,to cater to their political agendas,all the while,claiming the interest of wildlife,as their concern.

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,877
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #96 on: March 10, 2009, 08:30:56 am »
The thing with Wolves is that unlike Dogs they have no interest in fighting.  For them it's all about survival and you don't survive very well when you are severely injured.  Put those Dogs out to fend for themselves and the tables would turn pretty fast.  Also some of those Dogs were protected with collars, not fair
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline hawkbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,051
    • High Country Archer
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #97 on: March 10, 2009, 11:09:10 am »
Around here the wolves have become so territorial, they are killing stock dogs.. going out of their way to kill them if the dog is in their hunting territory...even mountain lion hunters are refusing to run cats because the wolves are hearing the braying of the dogs and killing them before the houndsmen can get to their dogs..a friend of mine on the wood river had his horse killed in the corral fifty yards from the house.. the wolves chewed the hind end out of the live animal and left it to die.. looked like a massacre inside the corral. the poor horse bled out in the night.. these predators are not acting like wild wolves.. they are acting like dogs gone wild... no real family structure like most wild wolves.... the last pack that was killed here for slaying four cattle in one day, was all males weighing near two hundred pounds each... I will say I love the idea of wolves and am a firm believer in the spiritual aspects of native lore concerning their position in this great circle of life.. but these wolves are nothing more than government sponsored terrorists.. who left unchecked will decimate our elk herds.. Hawk a/ho   
IT IS BETTER TO LOSE WITH HONOR. THAN TO WIN THROUGH DECEPTION...


Mike "Hawk" Huston

Offline cawkazn

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #98 on: March 10, 2009, 05:54:02 pm »
The thing with Wolves is that unlike Dogs they have no interest in fighting.  For them it's all about survival and you don't survive very well when you are severely injured.  Put those Dogs out to fend for themselves and the tables would turn pretty fast.  Also some of those Dogs were protected with collars, not fair


yeah thats precisely my point, the wolves have no interest in fighting, and if you had a small pack of those dogs, the wolves would probably just look elsewhere for food rather than go through all the trouble and risk of getting injured unless they had a very large pack. And it doesnt have to be fair, you can have large spiked protected collars on your dogs, they also make a sort of body armour for them as well, usually used on hog dogs. a pack on 1 dog is not fair.


i think one of these guys could do it, presa canario, males are around 150 lbs.
http://www.sanderskennels.com/02-19-05%20060%20presa%20canario.jpg
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 05:59:57 pm by cawkazn »

Offline hawkbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,051
    • High Country Archer
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #99 on: March 10, 2009, 06:12:56 pm »
Sounds to me like you are certain of the fact that a dog could get the job done .. so I guess you could bring a few of those KILLERS over here to northwest Wyoming and fix our wolf problem for us... ;D I am not a gambling man by any means, but would lay my money down on a wolf everytime.. I have seen the aftermath of dozens of wolf kills.. Even grizzlies will think twise before tangling with them.. unless they are real hungry ;) If you would like some real info concerning the problem out here... pm me and I will gladly enlighten you to the REAL story of what is going on. Hawk a/ho
IT IS BETTER TO LOSE WITH HONOR. THAN TO WIN THROUGH DECEPTION...


Mike "Hawk" Huston

Offline Keenan

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,824
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #100 on: March 11, 2009, 12:54:52 pm »
Cawkazn,
   I watched the links that you posted and can understand that there are certainly a "few" cases where a dog or especially "several" could defend livestock from wolves. However just as your video link shows there is almost always loss of livestock. At best I think it's a grander romantic thought of the great guard dog defending his master and herd. But in reality I would have to say that facts are that it's dog against dog and in the case of the wolves, they are forced to live out survival everyday.  Anytime the odds are stacked with numbers the wolves will win.
  Even if you are able to guard the livestock, the elk and deer herds are still being decimated when the wolves aren't kept in check. Yes they have the right to exist just as humans do but as with all things balance and management is wise. Unfortunately that is not what happens most of the time.
  It's one thing to have a theory of how it could work. However I put more credit and validity on what people like Hawkbow and others say that I know deal with "real life" scenarios. As others have stated, Yellowstone is a great example of what will happen if they are left unmanaged.

Offline DanaM

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,211
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #102 on: March 11, 2009, 02:40:54 pm »
                 Told Ya back a Page or two.....Help was on the Way.........and it now is being Publicly Stated.......... :D
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome

Offline hawkbow

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,051
    • High Country Archer
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #103 on: March 11, 2009, 03:53:08 pm »
delisted everywhere but here  :'(..
IT IS BETTER TO LOSE WITH HONOR. THAN TO WIN THROUGH DECEPTION...


Mike "Hawk" Huston

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Re: Wolf sighting on Santiam pass in Oregon
« Reply #104 on: March 11, 2009, 04:10:10 pm »
delisted everywhere but here  :'(..
Here is what they have to say about Wyoming

Service decided to delist the wolf in Idaho and Montana because they have approved state wolf management plans in place that will ensure the conservation of the species in the future.

At the same time, the Service determined wolves in Wyoming would still be listed under the Act because Wyoming’s current state law and wolf management plan are not sufficient to conserve its portion of northern Rocky Mountain wolf population.

The northern Rocky Mountain Distinct Population Segment includes all of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, the eastern one-third of Washington and Oregon, and a small part of north-central Utah. The minimum recovery goal for wolves in the northern Rocky Mountains is at least 30 breeding pairs and at least 300 wolves for at least three consecutive years, a goal that was attained in 2002 and has been exceeded every year since. There are currently about 95 breeding pairs and 1,600 wolves in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.

The Service believes that with approved state management plans in place in Montana and Idaho, all threats to the wolf population will be sufficiently reduced or eliminated in those states. Montana and Idaho will always manage for more than 15 breeding pairs and 150 wolves per state and their target population level is about 400 wolves in Montana and 500 in Idaho.

As a result of a Montana United States District Court decision on July 18, 2008, the Service reexamined Wyoming law, its management plans and implementing regulations. While the Service has approved wolf management plans in Montana and Idaho, it has determined that Wyoming’s state law and wolf management plan are not sufficient to conserve Wyoming’s portion of a recovered northern Rocky Mountain wolf population.  Therefore, even though Wyoming is included in the northern Rocky Mountain District Population Segment, the subpopulation of gray wolves in Wyoming is not being removed from protection of the Endangered Species Act.

Continued management under the Endangered Species Act by the Service will ensure that wolves in Wyoming will be conserved. Acting U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Rowan Gould said the Service will continue to work with the State of Wyoming in developing its state regulatory framework so that the state can continue to maintain its share of a recovered northern Rocky Mountain population. Once adequate state regulatory mechanisms are in place, the Service could propose removing the Act’s protections for wolves in Wyoming.  National parks and the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming already have adequate regulatory mechanisms in place to conserve wolves. However, at this time, wolves will remain protected as a nonessential, experimental population under the ESA throughout the state, including within the boundaries of the Wind River Reservation and national park and refuge units.



So it is still possible that in the Near Future even Wyoming will be Delisted....lets Hope that they come up with a Package that will satisfy the Feds....and delist them....
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome