In progress elm Holmegaard

[Dane]

Hi everyone.

This is the first bow I've built for this year, after about 9 months of doing any bow making at all, and it feels great to get back to making a bow.

The stave is red (I believe) elm from Connecticut, and was given to me by Jamie, at the 2007 primitive skills gathering, so it has been idle for about 20 months in my garage. It had significant reflex at both tips, and I was wondering how best to take advantage of the natural properties of the stave. I finally settled on another Holmegaard, one of my favorite styles of flat bows. I broke a few staves and boards trying to learn this style, and finally had some success with a maple Holmie I made last year, but it was way to tip heavy, although a really nice performer.

This time, I had no issues at all building it. No lifted splinters, for one thing, which happened mid limb on both limbs on the maple. Maybe I am better, or I was luckier, or the gods were smiling on me I did go with a very low poundage bow, as I wanted a nice easy shooter to get better at hitting what I am aiming at. This bow came in around 40 lbs. at 27 inches draw. That I actually targeted that weight and it came out there is a nice feeling. I think that a well tillered and performing lighter bow is preferable to a heavier one that isnt as efficient, or fights you in one way or another.

It performs wonderfully. No hand shock at all, and very "zippy" (no, not the pinhead, but it spits out arrows with authority). I am really pleased overall with it, but am not quite finished with it. I may have to do some adjusting to the tiller, but want to avoid that if possible, to keep the weight at 40 lbs. It looks to me like the lower limb is bending closer to the inner handle fade, but that doesnt seem to bother me or the bow. What do you folks think?

For finish, I plan to keep it simple, in the spirit of our Neolithic ancestors. More sanding, keep what remains of the camdmium (spelling?) on the bow back, as it looks pretty cool, and then a simple finish (maybe True-Oil, have a bottle but have never used it before). I dont plan to make a leather handle, or stain or paint the wood. If I do any graphics on the bow, it will be a very  simple design, maybe a spiral on each limb just above the handle on the back of the bow with red ocre. I am leaning toward no decorations.

Overall, I really am happy with this, and it has given me confidence for a planned Egyptian self bow and a hickory Mohawk recurve I am going to get started on soon. Tools used to make this were a small adz, draw knife, spoke shave (that tool really worked great with this wood), farrier's rasp, and then lots of time with a cabinate scraper. More photos will be posted once I finish the bow and am confident it is ready for critical eyes. I will also post specifications, length, all that stuff then too.

Dane

[Dane]

Here are the pictures.

Thanks for lookking.

Dane

[attachment deleted by admin]

[sailordad]

nice design,however it looks to me like both working limbs are only bending in the middle and they look
like they are hinging there

[Dane]

My understanding is that only the inner limbs do work on this kind of bow. The upper limbs dont bend at all.

Dane

[sailordad]

correct,thats why i said the "working limb",the area from the fade to the outer limbs,the flat portion of the limb should bend completly.
in your pics it looks like the "working limbs" only bend in the middle.
the part of the limb the gets narrow and thick should have virtualy no bend.
when i look at the tiller of a holmie i take a piece of paper and cover the bows non working limbs and this gives a good view of just the working limbs
and makes it easier to see the tiller,not trying to be to critical of your bow just thought you wanted the truth,and thats how i see it i could be wrong i aint no expert.

[DanaM]

I'm no jusge of a holmie's tiller but I also think some more bend into the fades would be appropriate, noy sure how long the bows is
but anyweight lost could be regained by piking it an inch or two. With that said if your happy with it and its not showing any frets
just shoot it and enjoy eh I like the idea of keeping it simple Dane, if ya want to darken some rub some powdered harcoal in it will stick in the
grain and make a nice pattern. Happy shooting eh

[Dane]

Sailordad, no offence taken from me. I misread you slightly is all, and see what you mean about more bend in the entire working limb.

I dont know. I have seen different interpretations of this design, some of which dont look at all like a Homie and more like a longbow, and some with really radical bends in some area of the inner working area. What is right?

No fretting thus far, no issues with weak hinge areas so far, and it really seems a smooth and fun bow. At about 15 yards, it buried the arrows in my block target about 4 to 5 inches, and I had to work to get them out. I may work on the tiller some more, maybe pike it a bit to shorten it, or maybe something else. That is why it is called in-progress,

Thanks Dana.

Dane

[John B.]

Dane, how long are those non-bending tips?  They look awfully long to me.

Tru-Oil's gonna make a nice finish on that bow.  She's very sleek.

[Pat B]

Nice bow Dane. I have seen many different full draw profiles on Holmies and don't know which is correct. James Parker built a beautiful yew Holmie with a full compass tiller, even the tips bent a bit at full draw, I believe. We don't have an actual Holmgaard bow to compare with so its tiller is speculation anyway, I believe.
   Whatever way it should be, You did a very nice job on your Holmie.    Pat

[adb]

Hey, Dane
From someone who has built many Holmegaard bows, I believe you've done a fine job on the tiller. Many people have difficulty seeing appropriate Holmegaard tiller. It's deceptive, because it only looks like a very small portion of the limb is working, and that is, in fact, true. The outer limbs DO NOT bend, and act as levers to increase cast and reduce string angle at full draw, thereby eliminating stacking. A bow, whose outer limbs bend, is only a Holmegaard shaped bow, and eliminates all the advantages of this design. What kind of unbraced profile does your bow have? How much set did it take? This is always a good indication of design and limb stress.
It is true that there are many interpretations of Holmegaard design, but I think you've done well in your's.
Oh, yah, picking the outer limbs will have little effect, because they're not bending. It's not like piking a conventional longbow, where you can increase draw weight by piking.

[Dane]

Thanks, Pat. Coming from you, that is a real compliment.

adb, I was hoping to get feedback from you. Your holmie build-along I have continued to visit, including when I made this bow.

The measurements for this bow are: 68" tip to tip, 14" non-working limbs, and about 16" working limbs (there you go, John).

The tips were around 4" right after unbracing. Now, it has settled in at 2.25" (tip2 photo) for one tip, and 1.5" for the other (tip3 photo). Is it possible to get a totally set-less Holmgaard?

Once I finish the bow, the beatiful yet subtle grain of elm will show a lot better. I had a nice little knot in one non-working limb, not a lot of character, but fun to let the configuration of the stave help define the bow as I worked on it.

Here are three shots of the bow I took just a few minutes ago, and one on the hood of my car right after unbracing it this morning. As for set, I am happy with what I have, and will I think just go ahead and sand and finish her. That means......I get to make another Holmegaard and try the next one with more bend in the working limbs. I expect to have finished photos up in the next two weeks, probably less.

Dane

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Dane]

Oh, forgot to say, I shot this new bow with Hillbilly's arrows, the ones I was fortunate enough to get during the Xmas trade. They performed perfectly! The spin as they hurried downrange was very satisfying, and they helped kill a few snowbanks when I missed my target. Snowbanks are probably more deadly than cougars and grizzley bears in these parts,

[AKAPK]

Looks Neet, Those Holmys are frustrating at times but they are liked by me.

[Gordon]

All the work is being shouldered by a relatively short section of each limb. If the wood can handle it I guess that's fine (though I think it will eventually fail in this case), but I personally would make the non-working part of the limbs shorter to spread the load out a little more.

[Dane]

Thanks AKAPK. Gordon, I will take a wait and see attitude here, and see if the wood fails or not. I've only put about 50 arrows through it at this point, and hope to shoot it a bunch over the next few weeks and month and monitor the bending area. I think for a much heavier bow, this area would be toast. This is a 40 pounder, so a plinker of sorts.

It is all about learning, after all. Sometimes the lessons are painful, sometimes not so much. I'm sure it was the same for our neolithic bow ancestors, but for them, survival didnt mean going to the supermarket, so experimentation must have been way down on the list of things to do.

Dane