Eastern Red Cedar

[jamesddavis73]

Guys,

    I had the good fortune to have access to and cut down an ERC tree this afternoon, and I have a couple of questions.  I quartered the tree and placed the eight resulting pieces (all of which are about 75-80" in length) into the attic in my garage.  Here are my main three questions.
1.  How long does ERC take to season?  Shorter, longer, or about the same as Osage.
2.  With ERC being weak in tension, how many knots can a stave have and still be usable?  These have at least three to four knots, mostly down the center of each quarter piece.
3.  Is it necessary to treat this wood with an insecticed or debark it, being it is stored indoors and was harvested during the winter?

Thanks,

James

[orcbow]

I think it is not a bad idea to de-bark it. I have seen ERC with bark beetles. They never stay in the bark forever, but they need that bark to get started. So if you remove the bark, you will also remove their hatchery and any eggs or larvae that is in there.

The bark can be made into nice rope!!

[whitewoodshunter]

I just finished an ERC. I cut the wood removed the bark split( with a bandsaw) and roughed it out in the same day. Then let dry for a month, rouged it out some more and let season for 3 months then finished the tillering and backing. My stave was free of knots and it was the only one I've done so I won't be much help there. Just leave extra wood around the knots and you might want to put a backing on it like linen or sinew.

[Hillbilly]

Around here, we have bugs that eat the sapwood up if you don't debark it quick. they usually don't bother the heartwood.

[Stickhead]

I've found that ERC dries out pretty quickly.  I generally season quartered, bark-stripped staves for around 6 months, and that seems to do the trick.

Knot-wise, I've found that a few little pin knots are pretty harmless.  I've got about 10 in my current ERC project, and it's holding together nicely so far.  It's the large knots you need to dodge if you can.

Be sure to start out tillering with plenty of wood.  ERC is really light stuff.

I like making ERC selfbows, but it's kinda dicey.  When ERC blows, look out!  Many people would advise backing it with sinew or rawhide. 

[M-P]

Hi,  I like working with ERC and other junipers.   I've been drying most of my wood for a year, but I suspect it would be ready much sooner, especially if you debark and rough out the bow before seasoning.  I agree small knots are rarely a problem.  Rotten knots from old dead limbs up to 3/4 of an inch can be easily worked around by making the limb wider.  The tree has already laid down extra wood around that type of knot.  If there are larger knots you should avoid them, or back the stave.    Ron

[jamesddavis73]

Guys,

   Thanks for all of the information.  I will work carefully around the knots.  I haven't removed the bark yet, so the knots that I am seeing are more in the 3/4" range, and not the pin knots mentioned.  I will repost when I use one of these staves to star a bow.

Thanks,

James

[M-P]

Good luck,  I you you get a beauty!   Ron

[Hillbilly]

That's one of the challenges with ERC, it's very unusual to find a stave without several knots in it.

[Stickhead]

Hillbilly's right.  It's a beautiful thing to find an ERC tree that grows against another tree.  That's about the only way I've found clean wood.  ERC is georgeous wood, and can make a really zippy shooter, but it's a harsh mistress. 

[Pat B]

...and when they blow, they BLOW!!!  

[M-P]

I've had the pleasure of collecting cedar in a grove that has a large percentage of straight grained trees.  The grove is on a north facing slope with the top of the slope covered with larger trees.   That puts the cedars in the shade most of every day.   They grow real slow in such conditions and really thin and straight.  The lower branches all die, leaving some pretty clean wood.  It would be worth while to keep your a look out for similar areas.  Ron

[jamesddavis73]

Guys,

    I debarked most of my staves last weekend, and I have my eye on two that I want to rough out this weekend, and make bows out of over the next couple of months.  The wood was still really wet and soft, and I put some chatter marks into the backs of the bow staves in one or two places on each stave..  Can these be smoothed out and still have a strong enough back, or should I go down to the next growth ring.  Second, what is the best design for an unbacked Eastern Red Cedar bow? One of the staves is 82" long, and fairly straight for about 70", and the second one is 79" and really straight for the first 60", and has a slight dogleg the rest of the way.  They turned out with only a handful of pins between them and one knot on the longer stave.

Thanks,

James

[Stickhead]

I'm not one of the experts, but here's 2 more of my cents on ERC selfbow design anyway.

ERC is similar to yew in that its heartwood is better in compression and its sapwood is better in tension.  So if you have a thin layer of white sapwood over the red heartwood, it is more likely to hold together, shoot well, and not take too much set.  If you nicked the back near the bark, it shouldn't matter.  I'd pick a ring that'll give you around 1/4" of sapwood over heartwood.  The boundary between the two tends to roam across rings, so just pick a ring that's a good compromise, such that sapwood covers the whole back.

I suggest you practice by chasing one or two rings outside of your target ring.  ERC requires patience and a delicate touch to follow a ring.  A growth ring will tend to have some longitudinal grooves along it, so you'll have some patches of soft whiter wood in these areas.  You can either leave it, or scrape it out with a pocketknife.

I've seen some great ERC D-bows (English longbow style), but I tend to make the flatter American longbow style.  For these, I use all the width I can, which is usually limited by the amount of clean heartwood I have.  It would be nice to have 2" of width or more, but 1 3/4" is fine.  I make them around 62-65" long for my 26" draw.  If you make it as tall as you are, you'll have plenty of length.  I'll either keep the width out about a foot from the fades, or taper it evenly pyramid-style to the tips.  ERC is very soft, so you'll probably want to keep the tips about 1/2" wide, or else add overlays.  Tiller slowly and gently!

I'm finishing one up now.  If it doesn't turn out too ugly, I'll post it soon.

-Tom

[jamesddavis73]

Stickhead,

    I appreciate your two cents.  How thick do you make your handles on your ERC bow designs?  If I go down to 1/4" of sapwood, I think I will be left with between 3/4" and 1" of thickness along the length of the staves.  Both of the staves I have are between 1 3/4" and 2" in depth now that they have been de-barked, but they are about 2/3 sapwood and 1/3 heartwood.

Thanks,

James