osage ring thickness

[yazoo]

everyone says earlywood to latewood ratio is the most important thing, but a bow with only ring on the limb is no good, if you only have one ring on the limb , its a 100% latewood is that not the best ratio we can get?

[Eric Krewson]

 Bows I have made from very wide ring osage lacked performance.

[Pat B]

By having 2 or more rings in your limbs they work against each other to increase the resistance to bend and add to the springiness of their recovery.     Pat

[yazoo]

what if performance is not our number one goal, I deal with mostly new bow makers,there number one consern as well as mine, is the bow dont break, I have had many first time bowerys get caught up in performance, break there bows and never try another, I have lots of new bow guys get caught up in making the worlds fasest bow that they forget the , number one rule in bow makin is it dont break,

[Eric Krewson]

You asked if a one ring osage bow was as good as osage could get. The answer is no, lack of performance, lots of string follow and real mushy feeling limbs. I doubt if any of these students you say you have have would choose this type of bow over a good solid osage bow with a normal ring configuration. Durability of any properly made osage bow shouldn't be an issue.

I have taught a bunch of people to make bows and their only concern was to make a bow that shot and arrow from point A to point B.  High performance was never even brought up by any of my students, beginner or advanced. If a student expressed an interest in achieving a certain FPS out of their first bow I would bring them down to earth with the reality of all wood bows immediately, fortunately none has.

[yazoo]

I did not say it was as good as osage gets,, I said the ratio of earlywood to latewood  was as good as it gets,

[DCM]

Usually very fat ringed osage is less dense.  You simply have to make the bow design (mostly width) fit the stave you have.  I don't know if a single ringed osage bow would be inherently inferior.  I simply don't know.  But I find it hard to imagine such a bow could be crafted, as I see very few staves with rings more than 1/2" thick, which might be the minimum I could imagine for a typical bow.  Generally folks consider the more dense wood "better."  I tend to take it as it comes, and don't find a great deal of diff if the design and crafting are optimum.

[Mechslasher]

i prefer my osage rings to be 3/16-1/4" in thickness, i even have a couple of blanks with 3/8" rings.  the limbs on my last static recurve are mostly one ring thick with a partial ring down the belly.  it is a super fast shooter with very little set.  i have not noticed any lack of performance with any of the thick ringed bows i've built.  as to my experience with selfbow making, i've made somewhere between 50-75 osage selfbows so my experience may be limited compared to some bowyers.  i have not noticed any draw backs to using thick ringed osage.  the draw backs to thin rings are the possibility of the back ring failing in tension more so than a thick ring.  about the only differing characteristics to the performance of osage that i've seen is in the color.  i've noticed lighter colored osage does not perform as good as the darker osage.  everyone who knows me has seen what i do to thin ringed osage.  of course, all this is just my opinion from what i've experienced.

[Eric Krewson]

That's the thing about osage, so much variation from one tree to the next. My thick ringed(1/2" plus) osage bows have been dogs so I tend to seek a middle of the road ring configuration. Who knows, I might have some really thick ring stuff in my stash that has rocket launcher potential. It hasn't surfaced yet but could most definitely be out there.

The first ten years of my bow making journey had me cutting osage like a man possessed. When I croak, miss Glenda will probably have a huge bonfire to get rid of all that osage I never quite worked my way through. I have that much stored, no exaggeration, every kind, the good, bad and the ugly.

[Pat B]

I take each osage stave as it comes. They all are different and in most cases make good bows if the proper design is considered at set up time. I have made excellent bows from very thin ringed osage(30 or more to the inch) but I usually add a rawhide backing to these. "Shere Khan" is a good example. I have made good bows from light colored osage. Most of it is physically light but I have used some that was quite heavy. Darker colored osage generally is physically heavy and makes good bow wood but some of it is almost worthless as it is an indication of rot.
    I'm working on 3 different bows now and one has relatively thin rings, one has average rings and one has fairly thick rings. When I'm done I will compare the differences.    Pat

[Mechslasher]

the dark reddish streaks in osage can be a bad sign.  i've had bows explode, fail, or take a great deal of set because of the red.  the red inclusions do make for a nice looking piece of wood.  wish i could find some osage burl or good "crotch" osage with red streaks.  if any of ya'll osage cutters out there run across some, let me know.  i've been looking for some twisted grain osage for years.

[Pat B]

Chris, look along that fence row that we cut the osage from. There was some pretty gnarly stuff there. When you do go there cut me some of that dead standing stuff that is hard as nails...about 1" or 2" diameter will do.     Pat

[Okie]

Yazoo, wouldn't teaching new bowyers to chase a ring be a big factor in bow building.  I agree thicker rings would be better for a beginner but I still say learning to chase a ring is a big part of bow building. Most of my stash is thin ringed and that is what I prefer. I am by no means a veteran bowyer, but all of my Osage bows are still shooting. If you have a one ring bow, I'd love to see it, most of mine have 10- 15 rings.

[Mechslasher]

i've been meaning to stop and check out the fence row again.  i found some big osage across the road there last year.  i just haven't had time to go back and cut it.  one tree is about 10-12" in diameter and is pipe straight for about 8'.  it'll probably be thin ringed stuff with red streaks in it like the other we cut.  i've got a piece of osage like you want in my firewood pile at the farm.  i've been thinking of cutting into it to see if it would make some good scales.

[Eric Krewson]

Well guys, I treated Yazoo poorly thinking he might be a troll. My mistake and a big one at that. He is actually Mike McGuire, probably the premier osage stave dealer in the country. He has handled more osage and produced more quality staves than anyone else around.

My humble apologies Mike.

By the way Mike, I grew up in Norris Tn just across the Cumberland Plateau from where you live.