Notching tools

[toms22]

I am new to  and just getting started. I read on a recend post that someone was using a horseshoe nail to notching with. Will someone post a picture of there horseshoe nail for notching. Also describe how to start a notch on there points. Looking forward to see how the pro do there notching. We have some real cold weather here in N.C. and it is hard to open the back door to try napping. Hope to see some warm weather.

[WindWalker]

Mr. toms22,
"We have some real cold weather here in N.C. ...."
We are going through a warm spell at -17 degrees below 0 (F).  Suppose to turn cool later in the week.  Another month or so before the cold weather sets in.  Another five months before warm weather returns.
All things are relative, perhaps (heh, heh, heh).
(No insult intended.  Merely sharing another side of the coin, so to speak.)
Best Wishes

[Hillbilly]

Toms, where you at in NC? we've been getting snow here the last couple days. Regular old horseshoe nails work pretty good for notching, they're already shaped good and are a little softer than a normal steel nail. Just rig up a handle to hold it, and you're good to go. Check out some of the videos on YouTube-lots of great info. Some good ones are by Scalp Creek, Flintknappingtips, Bohunter, and PaleomanJim. Notching is basically just taking alternating flakes from each side until you get the shape/size notch you want. easy to show, hard to explain.

[Wolf Watcher]

Toms:  The tools you use to notch with often depend on the material you are working with, the notch you are trying to accomplish, the hardness of the stone, and the shape of the preform when its ready to notch.  Horse shoe nails work fine on softer materials like obsidian, but not so good on tough rocks.  When making notches on points I plan to hunt with which are the Ishi style, I make the first flakes (one on each side and each edge) with my Ishi stick.  This gives me a good start with the longer flake pattern.  Then on top of a 8" by 2' log as a bench (D.C. Waldorf just uses a bench top) with lots of padding, I use a small hand flaker with hard drawn copper wire for the blade.  This tool allows for shaping using alternate flake removal.  One of the hardest things to learn when making notches is to hold the point at the right angle when pushing the flake off.  A high angle will produce a longer flake while a shallow angle will produce a short flake and makes for difficult reduction.  Using a punch when the notch is well defined will allow you to make some fancy and deep notches.  Plan on breaking lots of ears off when you are learing to notch, but don't get discouraged as one beautifully notched point makes the heartache go away!  Watcher

[Hillbilly]

Horse shoe nails work fine on softer materials like obsidian, but not so good on tough rocks

I've used 'em on rhyolite, quartz, and raw Texas flint-don't get much tougher than that. 

[toms22]

Thanks for the replys Guy. Hillbilly I live in Winston Salem

[knap_123]

i use a cheap pen type screw driver. you know the pocket pen type you get for a buck or 2. i take my grinder and flatten both sides and this works for me. i have a problem keeping the h.n. straight and in the holder. the scewdriver already has a handle on it.  for abo style i use a antler or rib bone flattened.

[JackCrafty]

Here's a link to an excellent youtube video showing horse shoe nail knapping tools.  The part showing the tools is at 2:55 to 5:25 (minutes).

---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4HnCQb8-uE&feature=related

[Wolf Watcher]

Guess I am confused about what this entry was all about.  Thought it was about a beginner wanting to know about tools to make notches with.  I know I am a little slow as it has taken me close to 50 years to learn what you experts have learned in a much shorter time. I may not be very smart but I do have an opinion about most everything including what the best and most successful way to get started.  May I ask if you could make good deep balanced notches with a horse shoe nail on hard materials when you started?  Its my belief that beginners should start with the best tools, easy materials, and the best information available and work into the more difficult materials and point styles as the learning curve is achieved.  I will stop trying to give advice to beginners, but will continue to send some basic tools to the ones that might need something to get them started.  Watcher

[Hillbilly]

WW, no need to get all fuzzed up and overreact about nothing, I for sure didn't mean to offend you or suggest that you shouldn't offer advice to beginners. I'm certainly no "expert" myself-I just a hack knapper, you're probably a lot better than me. Everybody has their own experiences and methods that work for them, and what is best for one may not be best for someone else or vice-versa. All I said was that for me personally, horseshoe nails have worked better on a wide range of materials- never found them harder to use than anything else. I personally could never notch well with the flat-tipped notchers that others make look easy. For that matter, my notching isn't that great to begin with. That wasn't a personal attack, just saying that there is no one way to knap-there are a wide range of tools and techniques because everyone is different. For example, I could never knap worth a crap with copper boppers, even though everyone told me that was the easiest way to learn and was what I should use. I just wound up being frustrated and ruining rock until I tried antler and wood percussion, and then everything started to fall into place for me. Someone else's experience may be exactly the opposite.

[mullet]

  When I notch, I use a variaety of Dental tools . I use horse shoe nails mounted in a handle, ground down to a point. Hardened files and a hardened ice pick ground to a needle point, that I stop and keep retouching. Also a carbide blade for a hack-saw. It is the size of a bow string and I use it to abrade inside of the notch so I don't have to put too much pressure to pop a flake. Which is usually the reason the nice, long, pretty ears get snapped off.

[Justin Snyder]

  When I notch, I use a variety of Dental tools . I use horse shoe nails mounted in a handle, ground down to a point. Hardened files and a hardened ice pick ground to a needle point, that I stop and keep retouching. Also a carbide blade for a hack-saw. It is the size of a bow string and I use it to abrade inside of the notch so I don't have to put too much pressure to pop a flake. Which is usually the reason the nice, long, pretty ears get snapped off.

Your a genius.  That is exactly what I need, an abrader that will get in the notches.  But if the dentist gets near my teeth with a hacksaw horse shoe nail or ice pick he better have knocked me out first or he will be getting knocked out. 

[mullet]

 Justin, what works even better than the carbide hacksaw blade is a diamond rat tail file.

[leapingbare]

i did not take the time to read everyones post.. but this is what i do.
 I use a flattened copper notcher.. and if that and got enough A#$ to get the job done.. then i just punch my notched out. thats what i do anyway.

[D. Tiller]

Yep! Did the same thing with that johnstone at the classic.