tracking with no blood.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I believe that modern mad does not have the tracking abilities as our ancestors. that has been stated many time and i certainly believe it.  i do my best at tracking when there is no blood and unless its a soft bed of pine needles, i can usually do pretty good but i am never confident enough to really consider myself a hard core tracker.   
     i use a couple main things to help me track.
1- tracks of course
2- Trails likely traveled and that includes easiest way of travel if no distinct trail is noticeable
3  and overall "feel" for where an animal would likely run
4-  any visible sign of disturbance, like broken dead limbs, turned over sticks that are wet on the bottom..etc

 so where i am goin to this is,   i bought a beagle a couple years ago and diligently trained him to track wounded deer. He has never not found the "deer" in training which has covered several hundred yard runs. i always try and track it myself before resorting to the dog. i am confident in the dog but i like to learn through each track job, plus i dont want the dog to cover up tracking evidence if i need to go back and track myself.
     the conclusion i have come to is, If i cant find it, the dog cant either.  he has never found one that i couldnt find.  he has found some of my arrows along the way which was good evidence and i know he is on the trail.
    I have never lost one and then found it with buzzards r anything the next day either, they are always gone withouta trace and i believe that most of them live b\c the only time i have lost anything was due to a stone point or just a flesh wound like above the spine or a shoulder blade shot..
     
   so what do you think,  is the dog just not good enough, or are my tracking capabilities up to snuff enough to find a deer if it is down?
     

[sailordad]

ya dude,your good enough.

i know alot of guys who have been hunting all their lives and they aint got them kind of mad tracking skills.


                                                                                   tim

[Justin Snyder]

Many people train hounds with scent drags. The dog learns that where you walk is the way to find the end.  You have only let him go after you he has only smelled the deer with your scent.  I would say you have trained the dog to track you.   If you get lost and wander around then stop, your scent never got to the deer so how would the dog.  At some point in training you have to take a chance and let them go on their own.   Justin

[Pat B]

Tracking is one of my favorite aspects of hunting and especially with bow hunting. I shot a big deer a few years ago and never recovered it...but with the help of 3 different guys in my club, each with his own method, we trailed that deer over 1000 yards over two days and 5 hours each tracking session. One tracked blood only, another tracked tracks and disturbed ground and the other(the most helpful in the long run) tracked the disturbed ground, broken twigs and turned over leaves.  Because of an identifying misfigured hoof I knew he survived and that deer was tending his scrapes a week later.
   Another story using a dog that we later found amusing  ...my friend Richard had a big old Loggerhead yellow lab that we used once to track a deer that Richard had shot. We released "Sport" and he immediately hit the blood trail but was soon out of sight. We were following the blood trail when we heard one bark from Sport so we headed towards the sound of his bark. After another 30 minutes and not another sound from the dog, we walked up on Sport with his prize...Richard's deer with one ham eaten off and Sport with a big smile on his face. I guess he wasn't willing to wait for his reward!
   Sounds like your tracking skills are good and your dog wasn't needed...but it's nice to know he is there if needed to get into some of those thick brier patches.    Pat

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I do agree with you Justin, i think a lot of times the dogs learn to track us and not the deer, but i dont think that is the case with my beagle. it was a concern of mine so i started taking him in the house where he couldnt see and then just throwing it as far as i can into some thick stuff. (i use deer legs from my previous kills to train him. its a toy for him also so its more encouragment, hopeing he will associate the scentwith his favorite seasonal toy)
    when i put is "tracking collar" on him (a collar with just a dangling light, but he knows its time to hunt when he has it on) he knows its time to track and gets all excited and starts baying like a beagle should. then i let him out the door and he will zig zag til he winds it and then runs right in to it like he put it there him self.
      Also when i run a drag andhe is on the trail of something he starts chomping. kinda funny really, but you know when he is on trail because he squats close to the ground and makes a "hup hup hup hup hup" sound.   but he will never bark or bay unless somethin is alive. 
 

[Justin Snyder]

I'm afraid you are training a retriever not a tracker.  If you get him in the area of the dead deer he will find it, just like he locates the arrow. A friend of mine trained his dog to locate and retrieve shed horns.  You want to train him to leave the shot location and trail the deer without help. It needs to be done by dragging the item for some distance then taking him to the starting point and letting him find it.  I would start with something a little stronger smell like the hide with blood on it. Drag it then go back and get the dog. Put him on a leash and lead him down the scent trail until he gets interested then let him go find it.  You have to be carefull because they can smell where you walked while dragging and learn to follow you. 

The ironic side of this is out here if a hound trails deer he gets a lead pill. 

[armymedic.2]

i wasa worried my dog was racking me, so i started using chicken blood, and trailing it out with a 4 wheeler, then with my truck, then by foot, and repeating the cycle.  the dog is a shepard husky mix, and he has always found the blood right away.  sometimes he gets stumped and i have to try and help him, but when that happens i ussually know the deer is gonna live anyway.  i make it a point that noone trackjs a deer they might want my dog for in the end, it messes with the scent.  most of the time it is at night and in the beginning i always treid to verify what he was doing.  he was alwyas right and i was just slowing him down.  now when "scrap"says "this way"  i just let him pull me along and trust him,.  hard to do, but the dog knows better than you do most of the time,

oh and i have a one other person rule, and a shut the heck up rule.  i talk to the dog, the dog trails the deer.  other than that the hunter gets behind me and does his best not to confuse the dog.  Too many people always seemd to make my dog have a hard time.  especialy when they are saying stuff like "here" and "blood"  one other person, and one only.

[GregB]

Pappy used to have a hound that was very good at tracking. He built a reputation for himself and it became a problem when so many people knew about Dan and his tracking abilitie's. I heard several of Dan's tracking stories here in the past couple of weeks...he was quite a dog.